E55AMG

I'm sure it's here but a search didn't find anything. I know there are lots of discussions regarding insurance for the car, but that seems to be pretty minor to me. I know you can buy insurance for the car.

What if there was an incident that caused the injury to someone else at a DE event? I'm sure there are plenty of folks here that have a lot to lose. How exposed are you? I know waivers are signed at most events but are they worth the paper they're written on?

Matt Romanowski

PCA has liablity coverage for anyone that signs the waivers. No clue what other groups have.

E55AMG

Guess I should check with Chin, NASA, etc.

fatbillybob

The fine print of personal liability polices specifically exclude tracktime. If you find one let me know. Big groups like SCCA hold a master policy that is excellent and lists participants as additional insureds. I tried all the big supposed motorsports ins carries and they all talk around the issue and none can deliver an ontrack liability policy. They fool you like say yes you got liability coverage but it is wrapped with the storage transport portion of the policy so if someone gets hurt by hitting their head on your rearview mirror sitting in your racecar you are covered but the fine print will tell you evrything stops once your car is on the racing surface.

E55AMG

No other thoughts on this? I can't believe all the people that track just go out and hope for the best.

Maybe this topic has been beaten to death and no one wants to discuss it. If it has , please point me to the threads. Thanks.

KaiB

I did a simple search and came up with an hours worth of hits.

If I'm able to, I'm sure virtually anybody can.

multi21

Having instructed with BMWCCA and PCA and been in meetings with their ins reps, I know that their ins policies cover an instructor. I don't know about NASA and POC or what happens if something goes down in a race situation etc. (I probably should)

Research the Ferrari event/Carrera GT incident at CalSpeedway from several years ago. That is probably the worse case scenario where a lot of things went wrong and estates were sued etc.

E55AMG

Guess you're better than me

J richard

Most every org has you agree to a limitation of liability when you register for an event (NASA, PCA for sure) and again when you enter the track and get a wristband. Most people don't ever read it and nothing ever keeps someone from filing a lawsuit no matter what. Welcome to the USA...

mhm993

Frank Todaro at Mid O region gives a legal presentation at the Mid O advanced instructor's training about liability every year. OP might want to reach out to him with specific questions.

In general, he says the waiver is pretty effective, that PCA's considerable insurance covers you UNLESS you don't sign the waiver, and that by taking certain common sense steps we can reduce our potential personal liability as drivers and instructors.

MUSSBERGER

There's always Lexus nexus if you are looking for the real dope.

Steamboat

Here's a thread I authored on 6SpeedOnline on this topic a year or so ago. The main salient point with PCA follows:
I sent an email to a couple of our PCA regional officials who forwarded it to PCA National. Ken Laborde, PCA National Insurance Chairperson responded, "On the contrary our policy does provide defense and indemnity up to the $10MM limit for participants who have signed the waiver and get sued in connection with their participation in the event. Please let me know if you have any other questions."

Here's the thread if you are interested in the details.
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/g...-coverage.html
Best,

tonypai

The Ferrari/Carrera GT case is the only court case that I could find with any sort of opinion. Google it and read it, pretty interesting.

All associations and tracks carry some sort of on-track liability that covers normal negligence. You sign the waiver and you assume the normal risks associated with this sport.

Gross negligence is not covered. DE event master lets a driver go out on track after he's consume a case of wine coolers, it's not gonna be pretty.

I've always wonder what happens if you get in an accident in the paddock on your way to the grid. Fully suited and helmeted up, don't see a kid and hit them. Will your auto/umbrella policy cover that?

mrbill_fl

can you refresh my memory? did the wife win her suit?


-I know there was a lot of talk about instructors NOT giving rides in their cars after this....

tonypai

Yes, she won.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/24/4...rrera-gt-case/

Over two years ago a crash involving a Porsche Carrera GT during a Ferrari Owner's Club track day killed two event participants when they hit the wall at over 100 mph while trying to avoid a Ferrari merging onto the front straightaway. The driver and Carrera GT owner was Ben Keaton, an avid automotive enthusiast who regularly shared his wisdom on the website 6SpeedOnline.com. The car's passenger was Corey Rudl, a prospective Carrera GT buyer who wanted to take a ride. The tragic loss of these two lives brought out a great debate in the safety of California Speedway's tight infield road course, the responsibility of the event organizers, and the design of the Porsche Carrera GT itself.

While the track event participates signed waivers noting that they were aware of the inherent dangers associated with driving at high speeds on a closed course, those waivers were dependent on who was found to be negligent in the event of an incident. Tracy Rudl, the wife of passenger Corey Rudl, filed a lawsuit claiming gross negligence by many parties associated with the track event. She recently received a settlement of approximately $4.5 million. The contributing parties to the settlement fund were 2% from the merging Ferrari driver, 8% from Porsche, 41% from California Speedway and Ferrari Owner's Club and finally 49% from the Carrera GT driver's estate.

[Source: Sports Car Market Magazine]
Stories such as this one can greatly divide opinion. On one hand, two guys lost their lives voluntarily participating in a dangerous event. On the other hand, the extent of the damage could have been reduced, if not completely avoided, by greater thought and care on the part of the race track and event organizers in the areas of visibility and pit-in/pit-out coordination. Then there's the debate about how safe the Porsche Carrera GT is to drive at high speeds. Hopefully the result of this lawsuit will not scare off other event organizers due to liability, but merely cause them to put more thought into eliminating potential safety issues.