Blocking defined by FIA -- Gums DON'T faint...
01-05-2012, 07:09 PM
#16
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I read it as you get one move. If you move to the inside approaching the corner, then if you attempt to move back on the ideal line for the corner, you must leave a car width. Someone correct me if I am reading this wrong, but what I am getting out of the statement is that if you move to the inside of (for sake of argument) approaching a right hand corner and move back as you approach the turn in point, you must leave a car width in this case on the left side for the car behind you that could choose to stay on line and set up an over-under pass on the exit. So it appears to me that you have three choices within the rules: 1) move to the inside to defend, and stay there, or 2) stay on line leaving the door open for an inside pass, or 3) move to the inside, move back to the center right before corner entry leaving room for a car behind that chooses to stay online.
MS isn't the online driver to dive across the track at the start. Webber, Hamilton and Vettel all do it.
MS isn't the online driver to dive across the track at the start. Webber, Hamilton and Vettel all do it.
01-06-2012, 11:17 AM
#17
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Didn't say that, but by strict definition any deviation from the ideal line would only be for the purpose of evasion, overtaking or defense. Defense is a block, even if only partial. Not saying to disallow it, just what it is.
01-06-2012, 11:19 AM
#18
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01-06-2012, 12:20 PM
#19
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So tell me, IYO, how does a car in the lead demonstrate race craft skills? And can they demonstrate those skills without being a poor sportsman?
01-06-2012, 03:42 PM
#20
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If that is your definition of blocking, I'd be very curious to hear your definition of race craft. You seem to be saying here and in your earlier post that moving off line to defend a position is blatant blocking, which in turn is poor sportsmanship.
So tell me, IYO, how does a car in the lead demonstrate race craft skills? And can they demonstrate those skills without being a poor sportsman?
So tell me, IYO, how does a car in the lead demonstrate race craft skills? And can they demonstrate those skills without being a poor sportsman?
01-06-2012, 06:52 PM
#21
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Mama Mia! Guys, I'm not saying it can't or should never be done, all I said was that it's a block. There are partial blocks, there is defense, it's all good, but there comes a point where it's a little more of a blatant block, and somewhere around that point it's also bad sportsmanship.
I don't want to cross that line, and I don't like others who do it routinely.
If you race against me, I will defend, and I will also cede when it's deserved. My ego will not get in your way. The best defense is to get away from you, not get in the way of you. Isn't being faster what it's supposed to be about?
I don't want to cross that line, and I don't like others who do it routinely.
If you race against me, I will defend, and I will also cede when it's deserved. My ego will not get in your way. The best defense is to get away from you, not get in the way of you. Isn't being faster what it's supposed to be about?
01-06-2012, 08:45 PM
#22
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Frank,
Congrats on your National Championship as listed in your signature. I'm just curious if you had a bad experience in the past or an incident happened where someone was defending and it went all wrong because, I've got to be honest, your the first person who I've met that is strongly against this.
Congrats on your National Championship as listed in your signature. I'm just curious if you had a bad experience in the past or an incident happened where someone was defending and it went all wrong because, I've got to be honest, your the first person who I've met that is strongly against this.
01-07-2012, 06:20 PM
#23
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I don't even know why I have such a bug up my *** over this, Pete, perhaps I'm just an old purist who liked it the way it was in the golden era. I have no axe at all to grind that I can think of, but I do recall an incident that involved another guy. Really nice car, in my class, new guy, I gave him a heads up to watch out for a certain other car, but later that day when his car was taken out in a dump truck he told me that he should have listened to me. Sad thing was that we never saw him again, it put him out I guess and that's a damn shame.
01-07-2012, 06:30 PM
#24
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It's strange that kids don't have problems with this long standing CIK rule.
"You can zig, just can't zag." It's pretty simple, simple enough for kids to figure out.
If someone is faster than you, there is a reason...you screwed up a turn, they have a faster setup or they are a better driver.
Make one move and if they get past, follow them and figure out how/when to pass them. If you really are faster, you will get around them, if not you don't deserve the position anyways.
"You can zig, just can't zag." It's pretty simple, simple enough for kids to figure out.
If someone is faster than you, there is a reason...you screwed up a turn, they have a faster setup or they are a better driver.
Make one move and if they get past, follow them and figure out how/when to pass them. If you really are faster, you will get around them, if not you don't deserve the position anyways.
01-07-2012, 06:55 PM
#25
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unfortunately, i guess i dont agree with your sentiment that blocking in total should be outlawed. granted, i know pca wants it gone or has ridden it.
but why should someone be forced to drive the "ideal" qualifying line while the competitor behind is not required to do so, giving them the ability to drive deeper in the turn, get sketchy trying to force a pass with deep braking with the knowledge that you cant take the inside line away.
you are at a huge huge disadvantage even if you are the faster car.
someone gets a tow up the straight away, and they just jump out to the right last second and you cant "defend"?? they just have to brake 50 feet later and they are inside you, even if they arent in total control, push wide due to their bad line, blow thru the brake zone because now every brake zone becomes an attack zone.
i personally think someone should be allowed a single racing move, a single line. if you want to head to the inside to defend the inside, so be it. now you are stuck with a compromised entry, a compromised exit and late power coming out. your competition shoudl be on the racing line, perhaps even over braking and getting back to full power well before you can on your compromised line.
im not in favor of being allowed a second move. to me then yes, its blocking, not defending.
i guess in sum, id suggest, if youwant to take a line to the inside that takes away the inside line for someone to pass, sure, fine, im ok with that. but then you better deal with the compromised exit you're going to experience being off the ideal line, and thus the competition can get you on exit if he executes it right and you stumble at all.
i just think taking away that single move idea makes the trailing car more desperate and aware they can just dive inside and make a pass. it would give way to far sketchier action and more wrecks. the rule of thumb woudl become, dont worry about a good exit off the turn, just trail the guy. he brakes, wait a 1/2 secodn and brake and the turn is automatically yours.
less than ideal.
but why should someone be forced to drive the "ideal" qualifying line while the competitor behind is not required to do so, giving them the ability to drive deeper in the turn, get sketchy trying to force a pass with deep braking with the knowledge that you cant take the inside line away.
you are at a huge huge disadvantage even if you are the faster car.
someone gets a tow up the straight away, and they just jump out to the right last second and you cant "defend"?? they just have to brake 50 feet later and they are inside you, even if they arent in total control, push wide due to their bad line, blow thru the brake zone because now every brake zone becomes an attack zone.
i personally think someone should be allowed a single racing move, a single line. if you want to head to the inside to defend the inside, so be it. now you are stuck with a compromised entry, a compromised exit and late power coming out. your competition shoudl be on the racing line, perhaps even over braking and getting back to full power well before you can on your compromised line.
im not in favor of being allowed a second move. to me then yes, its blocking, not defending.
i guess in sum, id suggest, if youwant to take a line to the inside that takes away the inside line for someone to pass, sure, fine, im ok with that. but then you better deal with the compromised exit you're going to experience being off the ideal line, and thus the competition can get you on exit if he executes it right and you stumble at all.
i just think taking away that single move idea makes the trailing car more desperate and aware they can just dive inside and make a pass. it would give way to far sketchier action and more wrecks. the rule of thumb woudl become, dont worry about a good exit off the turn, just trail the guy. he brakes, wait a 1/2 secodn and brake and the turn is automatically yours.
less than ideal.
Absolutely Agree +++
01-07-2012, 09:22 PM
#26
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Frank,
Congrats on your National Championship as listed in your signature. I'm just curious if you had a bad experience in the past or an incident happened where someone was defending and it went all wrong because, I've got to be honest, your the first person who I've met that is strongly against this.
Congrats on your National Championship as listed in your signature. I'm just curious if you had a bad experience in the past or an incident happened where someone was defending and it went all wrong because, I've got to be honest, your the first person who I've met that is strongly against this.
The way I see it, the (unwritten) rule was: one move. The driver in the lead gets to choose one line. If it's a defensive line, that's fine; but once chosen, stick to it.
But then, F1 wasn't enforcing the rule. So the FIA decided to write it down, and wrote what they did. Which is definitely more than one move, but not a full two moves. I think someone already called it 1.5 moves.
In any case, it's an expansion of what is allowable, in my opinion.
And I'm against it.
