Low HP Track Car Recommendation?
01-03-2012, 09:50 PM
#31
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Spec Miata all the way. While the cost of entry for a 944 may be the same, the running costs will ultimately be lower on the SM, and parts are available at auto parts stores all over the place. With a cage in it, an SM is a very safe track car. Oh yeah, and they are a blast to drive.
During the time my SP996 has been down due to my wreck, I've been driving and racing an SM. I'll be back on track racing the SP996 soon, but I intend to keep racing the SM also. It's that much fun to drive.
During the time my SP996 has been down due to my wreck, I've been driving and racing an SM. I'll be back on track racing the SP996 soon, but I intend to keep racing the SM also. It's that much fun to drive.
01-03-2012, 09:58 PM
#32
Race Director
I'd say a spec944 is a good choice since you are familar with P cars.................
Spec Miata is SO popular for a reason.....they are quite cheap to run..... Spec E30 is also a good option....
I would stay with Spec944...that way you can "sell" it to the other 1/2 as a "p-car"....not like you are trying to put them in something "lesser"
Spec Miata is SO popular for a reason.....they are quite cheap to run..... Spec E30 is also a good option....
I would stay with Spec944...that way you can "sell" it to the other 1/2 as a "p-car"....not like you are trying to put them in something "lesser"
01-04-2012, 12:18 AM
#33
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you believe your experience was typical? Who gets the nod on the safety & fun factor?
A SM is the easiest option. Parts easily available, and cheap from Mazdaspeed.
A 944 or SE30 can be as cheap, but you need to be able to work the internet & parts recyclers to do it. You also need to have the motor built right, once, then they are both very reliable. This should cost between $3K & $5k to have someone do for you, less if you can do it yourself. Due to a longer wheelbase, and greater polar moment these are more forgiving to drive, if slightly less tossable, than a SM.
Between a SE30 and a 944, the SE30 will have a bit more power, and more interior room, and a bit less handling potential than a 944. Depending on what part of the country your in, watch for rust in the E30's, and Miatas. The galvanized 944's are much more rot-resistant. This is one of the big reasons I went with 944's when I started out in the (well salted) Midwest.
My bias is obvious (NASA National 944 Spec Director), but any of these are good options.
If you're going to go racing with it, that's a whole other discussion!
If you need some connections in the 944 world, let me know!
A 944 or SE30 can be as cheap, but you need to be able to work the internet & parts recyclers to do it. You also need to have the motor built right, once, then they are both very reliable. This should cost between $3K & $5k to have someone do for you, less if you can do it yourself. Due to a longer wheelbase, and greater polar moment these are more forgiving to drive, if slightly less tossable, than a SM.
Between a SE30 and a 944, the SE30 will have a bit more power, and more interior room, and a bit less handling potential than a 944. Depending on what part of the country your in, watch for rust in the E30's, and Miatas. The galvanized 944's are much more rot-resistant. This is one of the big reasons I went with 944's when I started out in the (well salted) Midwest.
My bias is obvious (NASA National 944 Spec Director), but any of these are good options.
If you're going to go racing with it, that's a whole other discussion!
If you need some connections in the 944 world, let me know!
I saw your car sell...2X IIRC. It's the kind of car I'd be looking at if a 944NA.
Bias not apparent to me. And thanks re offer to some connections in the 944 world...I may take you up on that after I digest all these responses.
Mike
01-04-2012, 12:37 AM
#34
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
$10K (low) to $20K (high) is the range for the car. Unique situations could spread this a bit on either side. On the 944NA front which I have always kept my eye on, $20K would get me a top notch car and a used open aluminum trailer.
I'm not sure where this get me with a Miata, E30, ITS car, but I sense I'm about in the right zone (except for a National Champ SM). Yes, no?
Mike
01-04-2012, 01:17 AM
#35
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd be fine with an SM for myself but I wouldn't put my kid's on a track in one. To little protection. To keep things in perspective, I bought the wife an Excursion when our first child was born. 
The older BMW's and 944's seem to offer a little more substance in the event of an impact. Definitely agree that a pre-built car with proper cage would also be a requirement.
Best of luck and enjoy!
The older BMW's and 944's seem to offer a little more substance in the event of an impact. Definitely agree that a pre-built car with proper cage would also be a requirement.
Best of luck and enjoy!
All...assume properly caged car with door/side impact protection...we're out there with in a PCA event that allows non Porsche with the usual 996 and later fast 3300+ lbm cars...intermediate class...the Glen...do I start thinking "I'm dead meat in this 2300 lbm SM if I get tagged."
I'm not looking for a no risk situation...just doesn't exist. Just want to manage the risk as they say by making good choices. Anyone wish to comment of Eifeler's perspective on the SM. Are the differences meaningful?
PM if you wish...I'm not looking to start a war.
Thanks!
Mike
01-04-2012, 01:34 AM
#36
Three Wheelin'
For DE I think you'll want something with a little more power than some of the spec class race cars. I'd go with an e36 M3... inexpensive to purchase/run, enough power to have fun in DE environment (and keep up), decent brakes, great handling. You could even get a stock-ish e46 M3 with some miles, swap the brake pads, and have a fun car for $16-18k.
The spec cars make for great racers but will be slow/boring in DE. Lots of "daughters" running the e36 M3 in my area.
Fantastic though.... look forward to the day that, hopefully, I can do this with my girls.
The spec cars make for great racers but will be slow/boring in DE. Lots of "daughters" running the e36 M3 in my area.
Fantastic though.... look forward to the day that, hopefully, I can do this with my girls.
01-04-2012, 01:37 AM
#37
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So
If a Porsche, it seems 924S or 944 (spec 944)
Spec E30 or E36's if BMWs
and Miata/Spec Miata
IT (improved touring) car
all seem to be the popular candidates. All are relatively low hp cars that will teach you to use momentum. At a place like the glen, it means the gas will be floored from T1 until T1 again
Not sure of ages or current experience, but some clubs/regions prefer no more than 2 drivers per car, especially if newbies, since they won't be able to run in the same run group. Did you intend for all 3 of you to be driving one car?
I learned quite a bit in my 914.. but somehow using a nearly 40 year old car seems a bit extreme thee days. A 20 (ish) year old car seems a better way imho.
If a Porsche, it seems 924S or 944 (spec 944)
Spec E30 or E36's if BMWs
and Miata/Spec Miata
IT (improved touring) car
all seem to be the popular candidates. All are relatively low hp cars that will teach you to use momentum. At a place like the glen, it means the gas will be floored from T1 until T1 again
Not sure of ages or current experience, but some clubs/regions prefer no more than 2 drivers per car, especially if newbies, since they won't be able to run in the same run group. Did you intend for all 3 of you to be driving one car?
I learned quite a bit in my 914.. but somehow using a nearly 40 year old car seems a bit extreme thee days. A 20 (ish) year old car seems a better way imho.
Likely not 3 at a time...likely one of the girls in novice, hopefully me in next run group up. When young one gets better than me in only a handful of events, I'll get ridiculed and demoted
All...SM/944/E30/E36 looks like the short and easy list. ITS opens things up.
Nobody mentioned the longhood 912...why....cost? safety? fun? reliability?...or just a combination of all relative to those mentioned? Do I bury the 912?
Mike
01-04-2012, 08:36 AM
#38
Pro
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eifeler...thanks. I hope you don't mind me using your statement to draw out some others opinions and perspective of the relative safety of the SM,E30, and 944. It's something I thought of too. I listed safety first if you noticed...not by accident. Like you, my kids are the most precious things to me and my wife.
All...assume properly caged car with door/side impact protection...we're out there with in a PCA event that allows non Porsche with the usual 996 and later fast 3300+ lbm cars...intermediate class...the Glen...do I start thinking "I'm dead meat in this 2300 lbm SM if I get tagged."
I'm not looking for a no risk situation...just doesn't exist. Just want to manage the risk as they say by making good choices. Anyone wish to comment of Eifeler's perspective on the SM. Are the differences meaningful?
PM if you wish...I'm not looking to start a war.
Thanks!
Mike
All...assume properly caged car with door/side impact protection...we're out there with in a PCA event that allows non Porsche with the usual 996 and later fast 3300+ lbm cars...intermediate class...the Glen...do I start thinking "I'm dead meat in this 2300 lbm SM if I get tagged."
I'm not looking for a no risk situation...just doesn't exist. Just want to manage the risk as they say by making good choices. Anyone wish to comment of Eifeler's perspective on the SM. Are the differences meaningful?
PM if you wish...I'm not looking to start a war.
Thanks!
Mike
01-04-2012, 08:53 AM
#40
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
912/914 would just be screwing you for cost of maintenance, for the performance you get.
Decent, mid-pack ITB cars only cost $3-5k, and will only be a touch slower than the SM. Spend the extra money on trailer, track gear, safety gear, whatever you prefer.
PS - added bonus, when you graduate from DE to wheel-to-wheel, you get to race with a bunch of nice people who want to have a good race, instead of "those guys" (to put it mildly)... comparative data point, search youtube for "miata crash" ...then try "ITB crash". 'Nuff said.
Decent, mid-pack ITB cars only cost $3-5k, and will only be a touch slower than the SM. Spend the extra money on trailer, track gear, safety gear, whatever you prefer.
PS - added bonus, when you graduate from DE to wheel-to-wheel, you get to race with a bunch of nice people who want to have a good race, instead of "those guys" (to put it mildly)... comparative data point, search youtube for "miata crash" ...then try "ITB crash". 'Nuff said.
01-04-2012, 09:37 AM
#42
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
All you will get are opinions, as I doubt that a good data set exists to on this. So... here's mine. The Miata is the most raced car in the US. There's a fair amount of contact in SM racing, and from time to time, some spectacular "incidents", with folks walking away. A well-caged Miata is as safe as any other car on the race track.
01-04-2012, 09:57 AM
#44
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
+1 to that. I've raced away from collisions, in the 924, that would definitely have scrapped Miatae...
01-04-2012, 10:18 AM
#45
Race Director
Might be best to cross shop all the cars and make the choice based on what is available in your area.
as for safety... I can only guess as well, but I do think the 924/944 chassis is very safe. I chose the 944 because... well I am a Porsche guy. A track/race car may be an appliance, but you might as well like it.