Loose at Lugana Seca
12-09-2011, 02:47 AM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Loose at Lugana Seca
Laguna Seca last month, and I got a little loose through turn 10. Not sure why, but I hit the apex at 9 a little hard. No problems throughout the rest of the session so I don't think that tire pressure was an issue.
Comments from the group?
Comments from the group?
12-09-2011, 04:48 AM
#3
I think one hand on the steering wheel is the first thing to fix.
Better to upload with engine and tire sounds.
If you can remember those few seconds and replay it in your mind, you'll have been feeling the steering wheel get heavier and heavier, then go suddenly light. Some call this "incipient" oversteer, but in less grand terms, weight was moving forward and the road was transitioning from falling out from under the fronts to coming up under the fronts at the apex.
As noted by "winders" as you steering in to "pinch" the apex, the car initially responded, then lost rear traction as the relative grip front to rear, moved forward. Fortunately, there's ample camber, so as soon as the rears came around to a wide slip angle, the road effectively pushed up and created rear traction, the steering wheel snapped around in your right hand without over-compensating. That "compression" through T10 is a handy ally as the car transitions from steep descent to level. Bingo -- nice catch, but don't try it like that too many times ... : )
Better to upload with engine and tire sounds.
If you can remember those few seconds and replay it in your mind, you'll have been feeling the steering wheel get heavier and heavier, then go suddenly light. Some call this "incipient" oversteer, but in less grand terms, weight was moving forward and the road was transitioning from falling out from under the fronts to coming up under the fronts at the apex.
As noted by "winders" as you steering in to "pinch" the apex, the car initially responded, then lost rear traction as the relative grip front to rear, moved forward. Fortunately, there's ample camber, so as soon as the rears came around to a wide slip angle, the road effectively pushed up and created rear traction, the steering wheel snapped around in your right hand without over-compensating. That "compression" through T10 is a handy ally as the car transitions from steep descent to level. Bingo -- nice catch, but don't try it like that too many times ... : )
12-09-2011, 01:13 PM
#5
Race Car
As others have said, you were too late on turn-in and carrying too much speed (for being in that position on the track).
That said, you weren't all that loose. Little breakaways like that are how your brain learns to correct and recover.
Of course, breaking loose is also something that precedes going off the track, which is dangerous at Laguna Seca.
Thunderhill and Buttonwillow are safer places to feel your way through car control.
That said, you weren't all that loose. Little breakaways like that are how your brain learns to correct and recover.
Of course, breaking loose is also something that precedes going off the track, which is dangerous at Laguna Seca.
Thunderhill and Buttonwillow are safer places to feel your way through car control.
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12-09-2011, 01:54 PM
#8
Race Director
Thread Starter
As others have said, you were too late on turn-in and carrying too much speed (for being in that position on the track).
That said, you weren't all that loose. Little breakaways like that are how your brain learns to correct and recover.
Of course, breaking loose is also something that precedes going off the track, which is dangerous at Laguna Seca.
Thunderhill and Buttonwillow are safer places to feel your way through car control.
That said, you weren't all that loose. Little breakaways like that are how your brain learns to correct and recover.
Of course, breaking loose is also something that precedes going off the track, which is dangerous at Laguna Seca.
Thunderhill and Buttonwillow are safer places to feel your way through car control.
I have a lot of respect for Laguna and sears point, lots of concrete. Button willow and thunder hill just give you a nice dirt car wash if you go off.
12-09-2011, 02:46 PM
#9
Race Car
Exactly.
Here I am losing my windshield after a turn 1 backwards exit at Thunderhill. I had to drive all the way to San Francisco that night to get another one. But other than the bugs in my teeth, no problem.
Losing a windshield at Laguna was more of a problem.
Here I am losing my windshield after a turn 1 backwards exit at Thunderhill. I had to drive all the way to San Francisco that night to get another one. But other than the bugs in my teeth, no problem.
Losing a windshield at Laguna was more of a problem.
12-09-2011, 02:47 PM
#10
Platinum Dealership
Rennlist
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as jack said it's not that bad of a breakaway/slide, the good thing is you had the reflexes to protect it. making the car work too hard with the abrupt late turn in is still a catchable offense, it just slows you down or creates little drift moments (now you know how to drift).
it's a really fun turn when you get it right because the camber and compression make you confident you can stick through there at any speed but eventually you go in 2mph too hot and end up in the kitty litter on exit! during a race it's a great segment to pass because if you can steal that apex there's really no chance someone is going around the outside right there.
the "perfect speed" entry for that turn would probably still require a micro correction on the way down to the apex but you want the exit drift to be on full power and not have to lift because of that too much speed in thing.
oh and you need to turn your radio down when you're driving
it's a really fun turn when you get it right because the camber and compression make you confident you can stick through there at any speed but eventually you go in 2mph too hot and end up in the kitty litter on exit! during a race it's a great segment to pass because if you can steal that apex there's really no chance someone is going around the outside right there.
the "perfect speed" entry for that turn would probably still require a micro correction on the way down to the apex but you want the exit drift to be on full power and not have to lift because of that too much speed in thing.
oh and you need to turn your radio down when you're driving
12-09-2011, 04:35 PM
#12
Race Director
Thread Starter
I think one hand on the steering wheel is the first thing to fix.
Better to upload with engine and tire sounds.
If you can remember those few seconds and replay it in your mind, you'll have been feeling the steering wheel get heavier and heavier, then go suddenly light. Some call this "incipient" oversteer, but in less grand terms, weight was moving forward and the road was transitioning from falling out from under the fronts to coming up under the fronts at the apex.
As noted by "winders" as you steering in to "pinch" the apex, the car initially responded, then lost rear traction as the relative grip front to rear, moved forward. Fortunately, there's ample camber, so as soon as the rears came around to a wide slip angle, the road effectively pushed up and created rear traction, the steering wheel snapped around in your right hand without over-compensating. That "compression" through T10 is a handy ally as the car transitions from steep descent to level. Bingo -- nice catch, but don't try it like that too many times ... : )
Better to upload with engine and tire sounds.
If you can remember those few seconds and replay it in your mind, you'll have been feeling the steering wheel get heavier and heavier, then go suddenly light. Some call this "incipient" oversteer, but in less grand terms, weight was moving forward and the road was transitioning from falling out from under the fronts to coming up under the fronts at the apex.
As noted by "winders" as you steering in to "pinch" the apex, the car initially responded, then lost rear traction as the relative grip front to rear, moved forward. Fortunately, there's ample camber, so as soon as the rears came around to a wide slip angle, the road effectively pushed up and created rear traction, the steering wheel snapped around in your right hand without over-compensating. That "compression" through T10 is a handy ally as the car transitions from steep descent to level. Bingo -- nice catch, but don't try it like that too many times ... : )
12-09-2011, 04:36 PM
#13
Race Director
Thread Starter
as jack said it's not that bad of a breakaway/slide, the good thing is you had the reflexes to protect it. making the car work too hard with the abrupt late turn in is still a catchable offense, it just slows you down or creates little drift moments (now you know how to drift).
it's a really fun turn when you get it right because the camber and compression make you confident you can stick through there at any speed but eventually you go in 2mph too hot and end up in the kitty litter on exit! during a race it's a great segment to pass because if you can steal that apex there's really no chance someone is going around the outside right there.
the "perfect speed" entry for that turn would probably still require a micro correction on the way down to the apex but you want the exit drift to be on full power and not have to lift because of that too much speed in thing.
oh and you need to turn your radio down when you're driving
it's a really fun turn when you get it right because the camber and compression make you confident you can stick through there at any speed but eventually you go in 2mph too hot and end up in the kitty litter on exit! during a race it's a great segment to pass because if you can steal that apex there's really no chance someone is going around the outside right there.
the "perfect speed" entry for that turn would probably still require a micro correction on the way down to the apex but you want the exit drift to be on full power and not have to lift because of that too much speed in thing.
oh and you need to turn your radio down when you're driving
The soundtrack was because my camera is really cheap, and all I get is wind noise. It is an Aiptek HD, and I've never been able to get good sound out of it. On the Christmas list is the new GoPro!
12-09-2011, 05:23 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Everyone already covered 10. But in 9, you went to far right/wide on entry and didn't use all the track out on exit. I normally don't go farther than the middle of the track entering 9 (and using all the exit coming out of the corkscrew) and use all the exit coming out of 9. Let the car free when you come out of the corkscrew and you can stay on the gas longer into 9 without trying to fight it to get over to the right. IMO of course. :-)
-mike
-mike
12-09-2011, 05:24 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Everyone already covered 10. But in 9, you went to far right/wide on entry and didn't use all the track out on exit. I normally don't go farther than the middle of the track entering 9 (and using all the exit coming out of the corkscrew) and use all the exit coming out of 9. Let the car free when you come out of the corkscrew and you can stay on the gas longer into 9 without trying to fight it to get over to the right. IMO of course. :-)
-mike
-mike