Circuit Motorsports

No it won't be a nevermind. Only one other device meets the FIA standard and a few others are SFI only. It makes the FIA devices more attractive to some people. This does give HANS an advantage in the market to some people.

Mahler9th

Sorry, I should have been more clear. It may be a never mind for those with devices bearing both types of certifications. And if the sanctioning bodies stay the course allowing either/or, and not putting an artificial restriction on the FIA certification.

Of course we will see what happens.

Veloce Raptor

Thankfully, my HANS also has an FIA sticker.

ltc

Why would a device which carries FIA certification (let's skip the whole thing about writing a spec around a specific product) ever need SFI certification?

Does not FIA certification supersede SFI?

Not surprised at all ...

Why not helmets then? What is the difference?

magnetic1

actually, BMWCCA already requires you to replace your tethers every 2 years. Its BS along with their requirements to replace window nets every 2 years.

Current BMWCCA rules require:

1.) Window and Center Nets less than two years
2.) If you have a HANS it is 2009 or newer on the tethers
3.) Harnesses - 6 point - less than 2 yrs for SFI and 5yrs for FIA
4.) Seats FIA cert and less than 5yrs or will need to be back braced

Which is why I quit them.

Veloce Raptor

Definitely BS.

magnetic1

Of note, current NASA rules say:

Funny, but if you have a HANS old enough to have an FIA label, then you dont need recert every 5 years, lol.

Mahler9th

I already pointed that out!!!! Same for CCA and PCA, and it appears that SCCA will say the same thing in their 2012 rules.

Regarding tethers, it's actually every three years for CCA according to their 2011 rules:

"HANS tethers shall be replaced every three years or after any incident where the tethers have been elongated."

I have never really understood all of the details surrounding dating of safety equipment... like belts, window nets, fuel cell bladders, seats, tethers and helmets. Some of what SFI and FIA do makes some sense to me, other stuff does not.

FIA and SFI do not compete. Nor would I describe them as complimentary. One may or may not be "better," depending on perspective. And you can read the specs yourself if you want.

Nor do I understand how the various sanctioning bodies come up with related rules. I am sure that they give it more than a passing thought, however.

I do believe there are sometimes business incentives, but I do not think it is all rigged to get us to buy more stuff more often. I think primary drivers for all concerned are technical findings and opinions related to safety, and legal considerations.

It seems akin to what we have in the medical field.... you state what time period you think makes sense in your technical documents... so the sanctions are somewhat compelled to require product use consistent with its labeling. Attach your belts a certain way, wear your head and neck restraint in a manner consistent with its instructions, et cetera. If they tell you to do it in a manner that is inconsistent with its labeling... potential liability. If they are silent, the same can be true.

We will see what the sanctioning bodies do with this and we will see if it makes it tougher for non-FIA certed head and neck restraints to be commercially viable. Since SFI is a manufacturer's organization, this action might seem counter-intuitive for some constituent businesses. It will all work itself out I guess.

So far, in my recent review of what affects me, the most difficult situation I have encountered with safety gear is that PCA will allow a single layer, one piece cotton suit from 1985 with "fire retardant" underwear of unknown integrity, but they will not allow a multi-layer, brand new off the shelf at OG Racing (new-old-stock) FIA 86 rated suit, underwear or not.

I find that to be troubling, as I indicated in another thread, but I am sure that situation will sort itself out as well.

rlm328

But those of using the Defnders are screwed. Looks like there is a Hans in my future.

ltc

Safety equipment (H&N restraints in this case) is a lot like Microsoft , you are much better off with a monopoly.

SFI 38.1 might as well follow FIA and write a spec that only the HANS can satisfy, that will solve everything.

Curious how the other 38.1 devices (R3, Hutchens, Defender, Leatt, etc) are going to be affected by these rule changes.

Here's an easy way to satisfy revenue requirements for safety devices:
Install a FastLane/EZ Pass RF transponder on all tracks and on all cars.
Everytime you head out onto the track, H&D automatically bill your credit card $1.00; that way you never have to send your device in for recertification.

Mahler9th

What happens with restraints that only carry the SFI rating clearly depends on two variables. The first is whether sanctioning bodies adopt the SFI policy and require inspection and re-certification on the five year interval. The second is whether the manufacturer has or creates a program for inspection and re-certification for its customers.

I do not know whether the manufacturer of the DefNder has or will create such a program. There is probably contact information on their web site.

And again, I don't think that any of this is BS. I may not like or understand some of this stuff, but that doesn't mean it is BS.

ltc

It does sound like BS to me.
BS driven by legal and business considerations, rather than engineering safety considerations.

IF this is truly driven by safety concerns, then a mandatory 5 year helmet re-inspection should immediately follow this action.
Otherwise, they will likely just change the 10 year allowable life spec for a helmet to 5 years.

Mahler9th

Well... perhaps a call to SFI...

Window nets, arm restraints, right side nets and harnesses are made with various materials. In some situations these things are really exposed to the elements, like in open dirt track cars and so on. Not every application is the same.

It would not surprise me in the least bit if SFI was mostly concerned about the tethers and such on head and neck restraints.

Of course helmets have chin straps...

In any case, we will see what happens.

ltc

Makes no sense, especially since the (HANS) tethers are currently replaceable/upgradable by the owner; therefore, what is there to certify?

Mahler9th

And by the way, I think most sanctioning bodies focus on the Snell Foundation certifications for helmets, not the SFI specs. So a different organization is involved.

And I could be wrong, but I think Snell just issues the specs, and they recommend the 5 year interval.

It is up to the sanctioning bodies as to what is actually required.