Nordschleife

of course you shouldn't time yourself, dem bumz in de pits is a bunch of goodfer nothins, save dem fro' demselves and give'em a watch an a pit board!

Alternatively, there is no finer place for a Breitling to nestle than around the neck and between the swelling rise of a Hawaian Tropic girls outstanding assets.

R+C

Veloce Raptor

This post is worthless without pictures!!

aj986s

As mentioned, lap timing can sometimes conflict with insurance requirements, for the club and/or track. Best to know in advance.

When instructed, don't worry about timing. Worry about learning technique and lines. In fact, when I'm instructing, I usually tell students to not watch laptimes in the car, unless they're in the situation of almost being ready for promotion to the solo group. Video is a great tool, especially if can also see your hands on the steering wheel. And as mentioned, you can always "extract" laptimes from video playback.

Once past the basics, lap timing is a useful tool. But IMHO, if you're serious about your driving, you probably want to look at some sort of data acquistion that will allow you look at segment times, too. Overall lap time is good to know and work towards, but the increments are where the real learning is. Knowing that some segments are relatively consistent, while others have a broad range can help you focus on the elements of the track that need most work.

You can get usable data, usually GPS based, from a variety of sources/devices, including some smartphone apps.

mhm993

Since you said that you have but a few single DE days I assume that you are still instructed. Speed is not the issue. Learn to drive first.

Your instructor is not going to be happy that you care most about time. If you want times, have a friend in the paddock time you. Ballpark is ok since you are not yet looking for those last .10th's. At this point driving faster is not going to increase you lap time -- driving better is.

Video is a more interesting issue. When I am in the passenger seat I am not thrilled to see a camera. Generally the student spends more time adjusting the camera (I have been asked to tilt my head to the right so the camera has a good view -- yeah right) than preparing themselves to drive. If they insist on using it I tell them not to post anything that was filmed while I was in the car. Self-critique is nice but do you have enough experience to actually do it?

Telemetry is even further down the list. I've sat through a lot of dinners where many people are talking about their telemetry and I don't think anyone knows how to use it. But, again, a certain amount of experience is necessary to interpret the data. Its great to fine tune your consistency and inputs through telemetry. The key here is 'fine tune'.

If you are not ready for these things then do not get into them. It will just cost thousands of dollars extra when you are at that fine tuning point and you realize that your equipment is hopelessly out-dated. The camera we got 2 years ago is now the video equivalent of a dinosaur.

If you are not instructed after these few outings then do whatever you want within the rules. DE is for fun and if timing increases your fun then go for it. Technically DE's are not timed events and some regions take that very seriously, and some do not. Just be respectful and have a good time.

FYI, I sometimes film and Marc sometimes times me from the paddock. My DE times are particularly irrelevant (driving an 85 hp SSM in the PCA instructor group, with my arm out the window) and in a race any shortcomings become painfully obvious. I know where I am leaving time and do not yet feel that I am chasing those extra .10th's so I save my money -- a thorough telemetry system costs about the same as 2 crate engines.

-- mindy

ervtx

You're asking a bunch of addicts and fanatics if you should experiment with a small investment in paraphernalia.

himself

Peronally, I never discourage students from having every available tool that might improve their driving or shorten their learning curve - regardless of what group they are in. Sometimes (probably most of the time) in-car instruction doesn't stick. But post-session data/video review may be the missing link they need. And having better drivers makes it safer and more fun for everyone. I view this as one more role I have as an instructor - teaching them when to review the data and even sitting down with them on how to analyze it.

For those that can't interpret data, "Making Sense of Squiggly Lines" is a great resource. However, just analyzing the speed trace can be very useful and really isn't that difficult. Correlating Long/Lat Gs [and any other data] might be more difficult, but with a little intuition or instruction, it really isn't hard.

Many instructors will take the time to analyze data at the track, and compare them to current representative laps. In fact, the organizer I primarily instruct with will normally bring a RaceKeeper and rotate it through different drivers druing a DE weekend and then have a classroom session analyzing their driving - so that many people can benefit from it AND learn how data analysis can make you a better driver. Another organization I have driven with (many moons ago) would provide Performance Boxes (on loan) to the advanced students and also do a classroom session on the data.

These are great value added services and are very much appreciated by the paying customers.

As for cost, Performance Box is under $500 and GoPro can be had for around $250 (I got mine on sale for under $200). These are great devices and reasonable solutions for DE. GoPro will run 1080 or 720 HD video - as will almost any modern camera. My old Aiptek was under $200 and I used it for years. More advanced solutions are out there, but you don't have to break the bank - although in the context of cost, a full data/video system will cost about the same as a set of tires, and you will undoubtedly get more value out of the data/video over the long haul.

-td

2qwik4u

Its diffcult to pass in your group when you are driving a 88 924s. No matter how smooth or consitent you are, right?

2qwik4u

BTW im in the intermediater group.

himself

Passing is a cooperative exercise with the car in front giving a hand signal and the car behind executing the pass. The trailing car can also assist by presenting itself in the lead car's mirrors It's not hard, just need to pay attention.

As for being fast enough to catch people, in the intermediate groups it is typically a function of driver ability and not platform. This is primarily because of the disparity in driver ability.

All that being said, passing people is a usually a poor metric to gauge your performance. It shifts focus from learning and puts too much emphasis on competition. When people get the red mist in their eyes, they tend to drive quite poorly. As the old saying goes, "leave your ego at the door."

-td

mdrums

PCA Suncoast no longer allows timing equpiment on the pit wall and no one stand with stop watches. This is due to insurance. They haven't figured out how to police trakmate or iPhone Harry's Lap Timer in cars yet.

Fooshe

The only thing that you noted that I can agree with is that "Lap timing is data acquisition in the simplest form..."

After a day of lapping, you won't remember your fastest lap from the others. That is the specifics of the lap and everything you did to make it your fastest lap. At a DE, I use it to focus on corners and try different things. In car timing is the only way to truly utilize that data as it can give you immediate feed back and allow you to make any of the adjustments needed to put together a faster lap...that is, if you understand how to use the lap timer correctly.

Simply looking at lap times after the fact is from bragging rights, for the most part. It may be used to show consistancy or improvements/failures, but without the video, you don't truly know where those advances/set backs were.

The best piece of data aquisition you can have is a driving coach in the right seat because you get the feed back right away and, if they are good, before you think you need it. Other than traqmate type data, I can't think of a better form. I just see DE's as practice in smaller bites and very few of the laps are "fliers" that I am trying to count. I work in sectors and find it allows for greater advances in a shorter amount of time. By using this method, my qual times have dropped.

just my .02


PS. and as an insurance guy, I would NEVER tell my clients to time their laps....at least not by transponder. Most insurance policies exclude coverage when you introduce timing.

Gary R.

You started with that one (what is "a few", 3?), and now you appear to have been promoted. What region or group is this?

2qwik4u

Im with NASA, done bout 5 events in 2 seasons.

fstockcarrera

Well probably don't need to time your self at this point since you have very few days on the track. It will be difficult to improve significantly with so little seat time per year. Drive more and get a coach if you can't self analyze

KaiB

I work in sectors and find it allows for greater advances in a shorter amount of time

Well said. This is truly the way to nibble at the edges.