MikeJim

As a Red/Black Group advanced solo driver with years of experience, I was curious about entering a BMW Club event at Road Atlanta in September.

"I'm pretty sure that you would fall in our 'A' group which is our most experienced," wrote Peachtree Chapter Chairman Eric Nissen. "But you will not be automatically soloed as our national club rules do not allow a solo group per se. You will start out with an instructor but many of our 'A' group students are pretty quickly signed off as solo."

Unfortunately, that doesn't mean entry in the Friday session for advanced drivers.

"Our club rules and such do not permit us to have a first time attendee at one of our schools participate on the Friday sessions," said Nissen. "They require that a participating student be with us for 2 schools as a signed off advanced student to be included. I'm sure you are qualified but I can't change these rules."

What roadblocks have other Porsche drivers encountered when trying to enter other (BMW, Audi, Corvette, Ferrari) club events?

paradisenb

Many. Many. Many. I know of a situation where a multi-race license holder, who drives a GT3 Cup, was denied entry without a check ride. Cup cars don't have passenger seats. He was doing the event as a Test and Tune. Well, he didn't go.
You can't drive Boxsters, Z3s, cabs even with factory, built-in, rollover protection. No fully caged Spec Boxsters or SMs. I get the cab issue, insurance.

They charge more than most and have less attendance. I wonder why?

Ritter v4.0

I wanted to test and tune my car Fri, Sat and Sun so signed up as a "student" (I'd have to put a passenger chair in my car to get a sign off- and its a sign off EACH day).
They then asked me asked me to instruct. Ok- forget the chair- hurray.

Then a friend asked me to race 30 mins of the 90 min enduro Fri. No can do.

Even though there are no students Fri, apparently you can't be a an instructor and race. Something about "too much driving time". So I can race for 30 mins Fri- or have the whole day (well most) as open track day. But not both.
That kinda sux IMO.

CCA

Just about all of the above mentioned reasons are why I don't run with them. Interesting thing is, with all their rules and stressing that they run to a higher standard, they seem to have a higher number of incidents. At least it seems so from postings I've read and with the BMWs that attend our PCA events. Maybe it's a misperception, but it's one that's developed from observation.

Lemming

I've always been impressed with the Heart of Dixie and Peachtree clubs. I've instructed for both and have been involved with the BMWCCA instructor training course, which is far superior to any other I've experienced (PCA National and NASA). Once you show up and prove that you are a capable driver, you will not have issues in the future.

Probable the best DE day you can get is the Friday session with Peachtree. They are selective as to who they let run, but it's a blast with a great amount of time.

wanna911

I hear Peachtree BMW is sticklers about new drivers in their group no matter who you have experience with. I have heard a LOT of complaints and that has nullified any interest I may have had of running with them. I have yet to drive with them because I don't have the patience to work my way up in a intermediate or beginner group.

Audi club from what I hear is pretty cool. Oddly enough I have run with several PCA groups other than the one I'm a member of (Peachstate) and they have all been excellent.

Coochas

Do you know the reasoning behind this? Is it because there's typically a lightweight roof over the cage?

Matt Romanowski

^^Probably becuase they are too fast. I know of one BMW club asking a very quick driver in an early 911 to slow down becuase he was driving too fast on the track. Now mind you, he was completely safe, not crashing, following all the rules, just going too fast.

Lemming

Peachtree says it's due to insurance, but Heart of Dixie BMWCCA does allow caged verts.

paradisenb

My understanding, Dave, is their insurance does not allow any cars without a factory hardtop. Cage doesn't matter.

No experience outside of Peachtree club.

Edit: Run with Chin or try Rezoom which runs a Chin format.

chrisc

Didn't read through all of the posts but from experience* I know they will work with someone if the person's experience can be substantiated. Helps if the contacts needed for verification are other local area chief instructors.

*low HP momentum

Coochas

Interesting. I've never had a problem with PCA, COM or Group 52 but will make sure that I double check if I run with BMWCCA. I know that I sold my factory hardtop to someone who was heading to SCCA and they apparently mandate the factory top for Boxsters.

A friend of mine who instructs for BMWCCA told me that they require a checkout ride at every event for every non-instructor participant regardless of prior participation.

Lemming

Yep. We (Alabama PCA) are headed in this direction with a twist. All group 2,3, and 4 students will be one or two check rides per event. The idea is to determine if they are in the correct group and to provide further instruction. We did this at our last event and the students gave us very positive feedback. Many had developed bad habits that they did not realize. Issues were noted on their student eval sheets and we will revisit the issues at the next event.

paradisenb

I see the merit in the check rides, but will exceptions be made for race cars with only one seat? I do not like anyone being in the car with me or being right seat to anyone else, unless that person is a private coach.

Lemming

In the future we may be asking if you have a right seat or not when you sign up. If not, then a few things are likely. One, if you have run with us before, then we will likely put a car out to tail you and assess your abilities. If you have not run with us before, we will likely contact the CDI from your club to get an assessment before we say yes. If we do, then we will still tail you and do an assessment.

The goal is not to harass anyone, the goal is education and to make sure that drivers are in the right class. The new system will also make sure that we have an instructor to jump in the car with people who have not been to Barber before but have solo experience.

I'll be starting a thread soon, but the plan is to also start evaluating our instructors as well as our students. More to come on that later.