Enclosed Trailer question"
06-23-2011, 11:46 AM
#16
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I have towed a 24' steel trailer with both a 1500 and 2500 Suburban (the 1500 had the air suspension) both handled the load, obviously the 2500 was better. Most people do not think about this but trailering your car to and from the track will probably be the most dangerous part of your weekend. Having the correct truck, hitch, sway bars etc.. makes a huge difference. Like some have said above do not skimp out, its your life and the others on the road at risk.
06-23-2011, 11:56 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
I have a 2008 F350 diesel 4x4 that I tow my 20' enclosed (steel, flat front). With my car the trailer is only about 5500-6000lbs, however, with my friend's Mustang and our full support setup, the trailer is right at 7000lbs. I can tell you that with it at 7000lbs my truck can certainly pull it and could handle a bit more, but doesnt feel as overkill as I would have expected for a truck with 650ft-lbs of torque and a 12,500lb tow capacity. On flat ground I suspect you'd be fine with an F150 but on any hills it's going to be painfully slow and you better have GOOD trailer brakes for the other side down the hill! (Between engine braking and 1 ton brakes, we dont find ourselves using much trailer braking).
06-23-2011, 12:41 PM
#18
Late Porkchops
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This is a very very timely topic.
I too had been scratching around about trailering and a V nose vs flat. I had used my big Hualmark before - but I also had a F250 Powerstroke. One thing I hate is having to run that big truck uptown in Houston. They have parking that only a Porsche or VW can get in.
When I got rid of the big boat, I got a Chevy Avalanche 4x 4 with heavy duty everything. It is of couse a half ton. But it seems that it would handle a short enclosed and with the slant nose, to pull here in Texas or along I-10 where there are not a lot of hills. And most pulls arent that far.
I went in to look at a new diesel - $60,000
. I wanted to put my money in the car ! But I have been looking at just have an open aluminum built too. But for just a bit more money could snag a enclosed to keep all the stuff in and most peoples out.
I am on the fence. Let me know how it comes out.
Anybody have any recommendations for the best slnat nose? I had the best luck before with Haulmark. I dont know if they even make one.
But then I better find a Honda Trail 70 or something as a golf cart the size of mine needs its own trailer - it aint going in with the car unless I am out at 30 feet or so
.
I too had been scratching around about trailering and a V nose vs flat. I had used my big Hualmark before - but I also had a F250 Powerstroke. One thing I hate is having to run that big truck uptown in Houston. They have parking that only a Porsche or VW can get in.
When I got rid of the big boat, I got a Chevy Avalanche 4x 4 with heavy duty everything. It is of couse a half ton. But it seems that it would handle a short enclosed and with the slant nose, to pull here in Texas or along I-10 where there are not a lot of hills. And most pulls arent that far.
I went in to look at a new diesel - $60,000
. I wanted to put my money in the car ! But I have been looking at just have an open aluminum built too. But for just a bit more money could snag a enclosed to keep all the stuff in and most peoples out.I am on the fence. Let me know how it comes out.
Anybody have any recommendations for the best slnat nose? I had the best luck before with Haulmark. I dont know if they even make one.
But then I better find a Honda Trail 70 or something as a golf cart the size of mine needs its own trailer - it aint going in with the car unless I am out at 30 feet or so
.
06-23-2011, 12:59 PM
#19
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Thread Starter
If you go with the V-nose, consider having the trailer be 22ft or even 20ft. Most v-nose are 3-4 feet of additional space.
Also, here is some clarification on the capacity issues floating around. I have a 24ft Pace flat front with cabinets up front, tire rack mounted on the wall (holds 6), 5200 axles, and is a steel unit. The total trailer weight with car and gear is about 7500lbs (car weighs 2700). The trailer weighs about 3800 lbs. I have tons of space in the trailer for my 325i 4-door which is bigger than your 911. The tire rack and cabinets make the space very efficient and I do not see a need for the v-nose space if you are going the 24ft route, which is why i highly recommend you consider a 22ft v-nose which I'm willing to bet offers the same or more interior square footage.
As for towing, I have used (minimum 6 times with each) a 2001 F250 powerstroke, a 2006 2500 Duramax, 2008 Denali, and currently a 2008 Tundra (5.7). In a perfect world, I would still use the Duramax; simply put it was incredible. However, life is a comprimise as I use my truck as a DD. The Tundra does a good job at towing because the motor is incredibly strong (far better than the 5.4L in the F150) and the trans is a 6-speed with a very low first gear. I have made some updates to the truck: added a leaf spring in the rear, upgraded the brake pads to Hawk LTS units (far better, I used them in my Denali as well, highly recommend for any truck owner), and changed the tires over to XL units. The tires and brakes were the BEST additions. You must be careful with the stock P-rated tires on half-ton trucks. They flex significantly under load. You do not need to upgraded to Load D or E units (they weigh a ton more and will decrease your MPGs by 15-20%, many owners have done it and stated their results as such). The XL units from General or Continental are quite good at handling the additional load (capacity far higher than the stock units and can handle up to 51psi cold vs. 44 cold for the stock units). Also, I run an equalizer hitch; it would not be possible to do any of this without it.
So, I applaud you for thinking this through ahead of time; many people in your position do not.
Also, here is some clarification on the capacity issues floating around. I have a 24ft Pace flat front with cabinets up front, tire rack mounted on the wall (holds 6), 5200 axles, and is a steel unit. The total trailer weight with car and gear is about 7500lbs (car weighs 2700). The trailer weighs about 3800 lbs. I have tons of space in the trailer for my 325i 4-door which is bigger than your 911. The tire rack and cabinets make the space very efficient and I do not see a need for the v-nose space if you are going the 24ft route, which is why i highly recommend you consider a 22ft v-nose which I'm willing to bet offers the same or more interior square footage.
As for towing, I have used (minimum 6 times with each) a 2001 F250 powerstroke, a 2006 2500 Duramax, 2008 Denali, and currently a 2008 Tundra (5.7). In a perfect world, I would still use the Duramax; simply put it was incredible. However, life is a comprimise as I use my truck as a DD. The Tundra does a good job at towing because the motor is incredibly strong (far better than the 5.4L in the F150) and the trans is a 6-speed with a very low first gear. I have made some updates to the truck: added a leaf spring in the rear, upgraded the brake pads to Hawk LTS units (far better, I used them in my Denali as well, highly recommend for any truck owner), and changed the tires over to XL units. The tires and brakes were the BEST additions. You must be careful with the stock P-rated tires on half-ton trucks. They flex significantly under load. You do not need to upgraded to Load D or E units (they weigh a ton more and will decrease your MPGs by 15-20%, many owners have done it and stated their results as such). The XL units from General or Continental are quite good at handling the additional load (capacity far higher than the stock units and can handle up to 51psi cold vs. 44 cold for the stock units). Also, I run an equalizer hitch; it would not be possible to do any of this without it.
So, I applaud you for thinking this through ahead of time; many people in your position do not.
06-23-2011, 01:44 PM
#20
Here's my $.02...I had and F150 supercrew 5.4 and pulled an open steel trailer and had the bed loaded with tools and such. I decided I wanted an enclosed trailer so I didn't have to unload everything on Sunday night. I bought a 24' V nose. Some of the reasons for the V nose choice was more structural than aero. The V nose is just an extension of the sides and top. There is no fiberglass/plastic end caps to break and is a much cleaner design. Also, most V nose trailers are built on the extended tongue frame which is much more stable and easier to maneuver. My trailer has 24' of interior space and is actually 27' overall. I like it much better than flat nose trailers, but that's just me. Now on to the truck...my F150 was ok on flat terrain but REALLY struggled going up the hills and always felt like it was being pushed down the hills and was a bit un-nerving. Two words...panic stop. It's a matter of mass and momentum. I had one instance where an idiot pulled out in front of me and I had to really stand on the brakes to get stopped and avoid a collision and I was able to drive onto the shoulder. I decided I needed a bigger truck to handle 10k lbs. I bought a used, but like new, F250 supercrew diesel. The difference is night and day and I will never tow with a 1/2 ton pickup again. With the torque of the diesel and the larger brakes and mass of vehicle, hills are not an issue. I feel much more secure and safe and since my son is always with me, it was a no brainer.
06-23-2011, 02:33 PM
#21
Here's my $.02...I had and F150 supercrew 5.4 and pulled an open steel trailer and had the bed loaded with tools and such. I decided I wanted an enclosed trailer so I didn't have to unload everything on Sunday night. I bought a 24' V nose. Some of the reasons for the V nose choice was more structural than aero. The V nose is just an extension of the sides and top. There is no fiberglass/plastic end caps to break and is a much cleaner design. Also, most V nose trailers are built on the extended tongue frame which is much more stable and easier to maneuver. My trailer has 24' of interior space and is actually 27' overall. I like it much better than flat nose trailers, but that's just me. Now on to the truck...my F150 was ok on flat terrain but REALLY struggled going up the hills and always felt like it was being pushed down the hills and was a bit un-nerving. Two words...panic stop. It's a matter of mass and momentum. I had one instance where an idiot pulled out in front of me and I had to really stand on the brakes to get stopped and avoid a collision and I was able to drive onto the shoulder. I decided I needed a bigger truck to handle 10k lbs. I bought a used, but like new, F250 supercrew diesel. The difference is night and day and I will never tow with a 1/2 ton pickup again. With the torque of the diesel and the larger brakes and mass of vehicle, hills are not an issue. I feel much more secure and safe and since my son is always with me, it was a no brainer.
transmission, diff., axels, gearing. If by saying "towing to the track" you mean 2-3 times a year towing to a few local tracks no more than 45 min.- 1hr 15 min. away on flat ground the you can skimp by carefully with a 1/2 ton truck.
Crawl under a 1/2 ton truck and look at the size of the drivetrain components.
Then look at the same hardware under a F250, F350, F450. Another way to look at it is to get the motor and brakes from a 356 and put them in 997 cup car.
06-23-2011, 02:57 PM
#22
Race Director
An F150 is appropriate to take a carpenter to work or pull an 1000 lb trailer and bass boat or a sunfish sailboat. I have experience with all kinds of small medium and heavy trucks. Lots of good information above. towing an race car in an enclosed trailer will expose the 150's shortcomings; springs, tires, brakes,
transmission, diff., axels, gearing. If by saying "towing to the track" you mean 2-3 times a year towing to a few local tracks no more than 45 min.- 1hr 15 min. away on flat ground the you can skimp by carefully with a 1/2 ton truck.
Crawl under a 1/2 ton truck and look at the size of the drivetrain components.
Then look at the same hardware under a F250, F350, F450. Another way to look at it is to get the motor and brakes from a 356 and put them in 997 cup car.
transmission, diff., axels, gearing. If by saying "towing to the track" you mean 2-3 times a year towing to a few local tracks no more than 45 min.- 1hr 15 min. away on flat ground the you can skimp by carefully with a 1/2 ton truck.
Crawl under a 1/2 ton truck and look at the size of the drivetrain components.
Then look at the same hardware under a F250, F350, F450. Another way to look at it is to get the motor and brakes from a 356 and put them in 997 cup car.
This mean the 3/4 ton trucks are ALOT more stout than a 1/2 ton. Now if you have a short tow you could "get by" with a 1/2 ton, but most who try get by for a while and then just move up later and feel better. Those that make 1/2 tons work tend to get air bags/ added leaf etc to make the best of it.
06-23-2011, 03:06 PM
#23
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An F150 is appropriate to take a carpenter to work or pull an 1000 lb trailer and bass boat or a sunfish sailboat. I have experience with all kinds of small medium and heavy trucks. Lots of good information above. towing an race car in an enclosed trailer will expose the 150's shortcomings; springs, tires, brakes,
transmission, diff., axels, gearing. If by saying "towing to the track" you mean 2-3 times a year towing to a few local tracks no more than 45 min.- 1hr 15 min. away on flat ground the you can skimp by carefully with a 1/2 ton truck.
Crawl under a 1/2 ton truck and look at the size of the drivetrain components.
Then look at the same hardware under a F250, F350, F450. Another way to look at it is to get the motor and brakes from a 356 and put them in 997 cup car.
transmission, diff., axels, gearing. If by saying "towing to the track" you mean 2-3 times a year towing to a few local tracks no more than 45 min.- 1hr 15 min. away on flat ground the you can skimp by carefully with a 1/2 ton truck.
Crawl under a 1/2 ton truck and look at the size of the drivetrain components.
Then look at the same hardware under a F250, F350, F450. Another way to look at it is to get the motor and brakes from a 356 and put them in 997 cup car.
06-23-2011, 03:24 PM
#24
Race Director
Although I do not agree with your statement; I do think that half-ton trucks are overrated from the factory. I would never recommend towing more than 8k lbs with one of these trucks and would always use a WDH+anti-sway hitch in addition to closely measuring out the tongue weight to ensure it does not exceed the rear axle rating (found on the driver's door jam).
My feeling is 1/2 tons perfect for an open trailer. It is good match it will tow fine without too much hassle. Just loadem up and go. Don't need to worry too much as bed size and trailer size will keep weights in check for the most part. For a 20-24 ft enclosed trailer 3/4 ton is best as you can tow the trailer with minimal hassle again don't need to worry about every last thing you pack. 28ft tag or large goose, start thinking 1 ton SRW or DRW as it may be better than a 3/4 ton maxed out. If you must tow an enclosed with a 1/2 ton you need to be very particular about everything. You can't over pack and you must watch your weights and check your trucks specs as it will take the right 1/2 ton to do the job.
06-23-2011, 03:48 PM
#25
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Valid point. My 28ft. Pace V-nose is really their 24 ft. frame with an enclosed, extended tongue. I will say again that it makes a discernable difference towing even behind my F350 DRW, CC. I get better mileage than my previous lighter, 20ft. haulmark and this trailer never sways as the V-nose directs wind equally down both sides keeping it straight. Additionally, Pace's V-nose is pretty severe. Featherlite's and other's I've seen are much more shallow and I assume less effective aerodynamically.....
06-23-2011, 11:14 PM
#26
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Thread Starter
I looked in my manual and the towing capacity for a trailer is 8900 lbs. I have the 5.4l. 20" tires and the 3.73 axle. The trailer I am looking at is listed at 2500lbs empty. the car is 2500 and then my stuff. so I will be right at the limit.
I do about 15 to 19 weekends a year. between my PCA DE duties and then I do a full boat of NASA and SCCA racing, I get out allot. My home track is Mid O and I am 50 min away but I regularly travel 3 to 4 hrs to get to events. I also take annual trips to VIR and Robeling road which included doing the mountains.
I edited the above the trailer empty is 2500
I do about 15 to 19 weekends a year. between my PCA DE duties and then I do a full boat of NASA and SCCA racing, I get out allot. My home track is Mid O and I am 50 min away but I regularly travel 3 to 4 hrs to get to events. I also take annual trips to VIR and Robeling road which included doing the mountains.
I edited the above the trailer empty is 2500
06-24-2011, 02:01 AM
#27
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I just towed a 24' V-nose steel frame (3600# empty) weighing in at 7,880#, and roughly 800# tongue weight, 1,400 miles. Curt Mfgr load stabilizer. 2005 Ford F250. Total weight, truck/trailer/payload, 17,800#.
Towed through the mountains with ease. Never did it feel unstable. Passing semis, and semis passing me. Never once was it anything other than solid. I am thoroughly impressed with my F250.
I have towed a 944 on an open trailer with my dad's Expedition... not nearly as stable or reassuring.
Towed through the mountains with ease. Never did it feel unstable. Passing semis, and semis passing me. Never once was it anything other than solid. I am thoroughly impressed with my F250.
I have towed a 944 on an open trailer with my dad's Expedition... not nearly as stable or reassuring.
06-24-2011, 06:56 AM
#28
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I looked in my manual and the towing capacity for a trailer is 8900 lbs. I have the 5.4l. 20" tires and the 3.73 axle. The trailer I am looking at is listed at 2500lbs empty. the car is 2500 and then my stuff. so I will be right at the limit.
I do about 15 to 19 weekends a year. between my PCA DE duties and then I do a full boat of NASA and SCCA racing, I get out allot. My home track is Mid O and I am 50 min away but I regularly travel 3 to 4 hrs to get to events. I also take annual trips to VIR and Robeling road which included doing the mountains.
I edited the above the trailer empty is 2500
I do about 15 to 19 weekends a year. between my PCA DE duties and then I do a full boat of NASA and SCCA racing, I get out allot. My home track is Mid O and I am 50 min away but I regularly travel 3 to 4 hrs to get to events. I also take annual trips to VIR and Robeling road which included doing the mountains.
I edited the above the trailer empty is 2500
All kidding aside, we don't skimp on safety on the track and damn sure shouldn't on the street where it is far more dangerous. At the moment you're marginal at best for short work, and dangerous in an emergency situation.
Trade to a 2010 or older (read EPA and urea) diesel 3/4T truck and be happy. WD/antisway hitch is also heaven on the road, regardless of the size of the truck.
06-24-2011, 11:27 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
If you get a bigger truck then consider a gooseneck trailer. I have a V nose aluminum Thule 28 foot and my total F350 and trailer length is just about the same as my F350 with my old Featherlite open. Gooseneck tongue weight goes directly onto the rear axel, not behind it. I have enough room on the floor for a small bench and a tire rack. Generator in the attic with tons of leftover storage up there. Note, goosenecks usually have about 8' length of attic space so my 28 has about 20' floor length. Only notice the weight when accelerating or braking. Never feel one hint of sway and never feel a semi going by.
06-24-2011, 12:35 PM
#30
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Thread Starter
You have made a convincing case of needing the F250. I knew once I stepped out on the edge It would be a long drop before I hit ground. I became committed to by an enclosed this year when we in the mid west have had so much rain this year. almost every weekend, and at the last race i was out in the rain changing into my fire suit. That was the last straw, getting into the race car soaked before i left the paddock was not fun for a hobby.
I am going to look into the v nose with shorter trailer. I do not need to be greedy,
I am going to look into the v nose with shorter trailer. I do not need to be greedy,