SG_M3

The racing in SM is a whole lot tighter and more competitive than a GTS race. I don't think its fair to assume that the lack of a 13/13 rule means its a crash fest, they still discourage contact.

13/13 doesn't stop running out of talent. For 13/13 to be effective, you have to enforce it. From what I've seen most series don't enforce it enough, and who you are in the series can also allow rules to be bent.

fatbillybob

I think in some of the "popular" national clubs it appears that there are a few people with professional aspirations. Does that increase the risk of significant contact? I don't know but around here at least one car per weekend does not goes home in the same condition it came to the track. Additionally, the tow drivers/rescuers are keenly aware of keeping impacting drivers separated and cooled off to avoid additional off track "contact." I don't know how POC/PCA drivers treat each other at their events but I will say one thing about them. When on track with POC/PCA drivers in non-POC/PCA venues they seem to be on average better skilled and better manered racers. When I was a rookie racer I always felt perfectly comfortable sharing the track with POC/PCA racers. How do you guys do that?

ukrbmw

Well, I'm sorry you can't read the parking map. We have a pretty good and consistent number of racers at every race (over 20 in SE at every single event). And every time people park in the area designated for us. Maybe people should try to create some camaraderie in GTS and other Thunder classes and you may have less incidents and have more fun.

fatbillybob

Wow! I find that parking next to someone completely different gives me a weekend to meet new people and develop new friendships. I develop respect for my fellow driver and even when we are in different classes I like to think we take care of each other out on track. Most of us clubracers have day jobs and do this weekend stuff for fun. I'd hate to park next to you and just offend you.

Sterling Doc

We race together, we share tools/spares unique to our cars, and we BS about the race we had together. We respect & hang out with the other racers as well, but building a class works best done together, not scattered throughout the paddock. It's not sacred, but it's a nice courtesy to allow that to happen, that most racers understand.

As for contact, the variation from one event to the next is > than from one organization to the next. We've never had a car unable to continue an event from car-to-car contact in NASA 944 Spec MW in the 4 years it's been around, but there's been contact at times. We've had one racer suspended for this, when appropriate, without a 13/13 rule. The PCA event I went to last year at Road America was well run & clean in my run groups as well, though the 911 Cup car race ended in tears, lots of them. Road America is another car eating track, and Cup (or Spec) cars spend a lot of time side by side. It's exciting, and a bit higher risk....

Veloce Raptor

You just contradicted yourself. How can camaraderie be created with attitudes like yours?

bobt993

The unofficially "reserved areas" at the track can get a little silly. I see no reason not to try and let the race groups paddock together, but if you get a couple of cars mixed into your "land" I would not get too frazzled. You may even find a new friend or project some of the brotherly love you have reserved for your exclusive group. I had this happen with a spec groups two years ago at Summit. We had purposely arrived very early and helped during day at another event located at the track. That gave us a premium camping spot for a hot weekend. When the later arrivals showed up we were told to move (even though we received approval from the race director). The entire ordeal almost escalated into a fight. There was more than enough room and we were on the end of the lane not between potential groupings.

The biggest issue I have seen at a NASA weekend is improper class mixing. Mid Atlantic does it right. They are excellent at running multiple split starts in the same race to spread out the field. When you have high HP superunlimited cars qualyfing the same as a 250hp GTS car there is a problem. The speed disparity at every corner for the first 5 laps creates a log jam. Poorly driven high hp cars go flying by on the straights only to park their cars on corner entry often getting hit from using a very late apex. The really fast driven SU cars are gone at the drop of the flag. If anything you look in your mirrors for them towards the end of the race.

ukrbmw

Bob - I don't know which group you race with and can't really comment. When I was doing HPDE I parked anywhere and tried to make friends. Now I park with E30s - we share wheels, tires, parts and spares, discuss race, etc. It's hard to do any of this when we are all spread out all over the paddock. If you are in a Spec class you will likely understand what I'm trying to get across.

VR - my attitude is just fine. To sit here and complain about somebody asking you to move because we want to be paddocked together is every bot as bad as me saying what I said. At this weekend we had a race team camp in out area and even our event drector told them to pay attention next time.

In the end most Spec classes want to be in the same area for reasons mentioned above. Other classes don't care as much and simply look for close, good parking. NASA-SE actually creates the map to give everyone a chance to paddock together and those who are come to those events often actually do try to park together.

Bigpinekey

Boys, y'all got to understand the NASA-SE Spec-E30 crowd. They are a different bunch...and I mean that in a good way.

North Coast Cab

To me carnage is similar among all groups. All groups have unfortunate instances, stupid drivers, and guys with just bad luck. Some need to do a better job enforcing the rules and penalizing to deter others.

I am against the "class" parking. I come to the track to see lots of friends who race in many different classes. Shouldn't we be allowed to paddock together? Should "class" paddocking be given preferential treatment? Should we be sent far far away? Not from my perspective and I pay the same entry fee as everyone else.


and Bigpinekey - did you sign-up for MO yet?

originalmotorhead

I like to park near the pit spots with the most beers in their coolers :P

Racing is done at 5:30...

Tom

Bigpinekey

Is that you, John?

Nah, haven't signed up yet.

I've made a bunch of aero mods, and keep finding things that need adjusting so it won't run hot and, hopefully, we have that solved. I get the car back tomorrow. (Danny and James raised the stakes in the arms race so now we've all gone Chaparral'ish.)

I'm taking each weekend as it comes. I've got VIR this coming weekend and will assess the MO weekend if I get through that unscathed.

Man, you've got an all-star lineup for the ST races. Good job!

Ritter v4.0

NASA provided an aerial photo of where the classes should park.
My car was dropped off there early Thurs nite before most arrived and was at worst, on the borderline of E30 group. The response by one drover was a little OTT IMO.

Next I'll park up top overlooking the pro paddock with pimp Cup cars. If they'll have me
: /

Sterling Doc

C'mon John - you guys can and do that, and it has nothing to do with us group of friends who all have 944 Spec cars from parking together. No one's not allowing you to paddock together. We don't get bent out of shape if there's another friend or other class racer in the mix, but the first guy to the track stakes out some ground for us, just like you guys do for your friends. As we get bigger, we need more room.

Our class sponsor is bringing 4 cars to the track for arrive and drive + rental, and the rest of us pay $100 per weekend for food, beer and trackside support. This works because we all paddock together, and we all chip in. It's part of how Bennington Motorsports can do this for incredibly cheap. It works great for us, but it is only possible if it's reasonably efficient & and we all paddock together.

I don't think it'd go over great if you paddocked in front of Fall Line's Toter. We are not more, or less special than they are.

Sterling Doc

LOL, looks like we'll be seeing you over by the CMC guys.
We may not have the most beer, but we have the good stuff .