Steamboat

2011 will be my second full year of PCA DE participation and I am thinking about installing a roll bar in my 08 911 Turbo "just in case stuff were to happen". The car also doubles as a daily driver and while I don't care about losing the back seats, I don't want to compromise its overall streetability. I'd be appreciative if anyone could offer advice about which ones to consider and what I should look for since my knowledge base is limited.

I'm also going to opt for driving with a proper suit, gloves and whatnot this year, as well as paying for some additional professional coaching/instruction. I'm sure some will consider this to be over the top but that's okay too. My car has customary suspension upgrades, a modest ECU flash and I currently run in an advanced group (orange) in our region. Thanks for any help and insight you can provide.

bella1

I would suggest a DAS rollbar, GT3 Porsche Seats (can find used for $2,000 with sliders and sub bar), Six Point Harness (New), and Hans Device. These seats are good for street and track...a good compromise. They do not fold back though. Best of luck and have a great year in that Turbo!

Kerry

Steam,
I did the same with my daily driver '02 Turbo for 4 years. Like Alex said, I had a DAS Sport bar with two used Euro GT3 seats. I think you might have to spend more than $2,000 for them now, they don't make them any more and the prices have gone up. You could get the 997 Sport Buckets, but they are much more expensive. I bought the Brey-Kraus seat mounts as they allowed me to drop the seat an inch which was just what I needed to get helmet clearance. I opted to keep the seats and roll bar in year 'round. Even with a winter coat on they were still comfortable. The six point harness can be kept in as well. The sub belt buckle can hang over the front of the seat under the cushion and everything stays out of your way. As long as you are putting in the roll bar, you might as well remove the rear seats. Removing the sub woofer isn't necessary, but it will save some weight. With the fixed back Euro GT3 seats and the roll bar, the back seat area becomes fairly useless. Other than that, I didn't find any downsides to having my daily driver setup that way. I've recently sold it and will be putting the DAS bar in my new 2011 Turbo S. I got it with the Sport Buckets, so now I can tip the seat backs forward. Otherwise, it will be the same setup as was in my 996TT.

facelvega

My .02:

6-point harness (probably means new seats) and HANS (may mean new helmet) is the best first step. Your car is already built (and proven) to roll over at high speeds on the autobahn without (...always...)killing the occupants. The added protection of holding your body tightly in the seat, and keeping your head attached to your torso increases safety substantially.

It will also take a lot longer to learn to drive faster without being anchored in your seat. When you are not bouncing around the cockpit, you can feel much more subtle changes in the cars balance, and make much smoother inputs....and smooth is fast.

As explained to me: it may be possible to learn to play the piano while bouncing on a pogo stick - but wouldn't you learn faster sitting on a nice, stable piano bench?

Mikelly

Funny, but I'm returning mine to more "street" livable with an eye on less track prep and more ease to drive it at the track with less fuss... I've also got two track cars with full cages, so that explains a little bit of the "why". But honestly, what I found was the more track oriented it got, the less I enjoyed it on the street, and I've missed my 996TT as a street car...I plan to buy a harness bar to use and will likely put my Dasport bar in storage for a while...

Mike

JackOlsen

If you're still driving the car on the street, make sure you pad the roll bar with high-density padding.

kurt M

HD padding is the only stuff to use but don't fool yourself into thinking it is good for heads. It intended to be combined with helmet usage. Round bars and un-helmeted heads do not get along regardless of the padding. The soft stuff is usless other than to reduce the nusance head knocks while getting in and oput of the car. During an impace it absorbs almost no energy. The good news is it is not all that easy to hit your head on a roll bar in a late car with good seats. Cage is another thing.

Seat and 5 point or better will be the real jump in crash safety in a later car IMO.

Veloce Raptor

Other posts in this thread offer very good advice. I give you props for being aware enough of the sport to be proactive on safety and still have fun in a beautiful car!....and no clear-thinking person could possibly consider your investment in your own safety over the top!

Best wishes!









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

M758

A roll bar will keep the car some what streetable. However how streetable is a personal decision. More saftey gear is always good in a fast car driven at high pace. The wall does not care if you are DEing a daily driver vs racing dedicated track car.

Over 10 years ago I had the choice of modifying a my street car for the track or building a dedicated track only car. I chose the track only car and I feel it was the right decision for me. With in 18 months of running that dedicated track car it had a roll cage and I was working on my comp license.

MJP911

This will be my second full DE year as well. I went with the Porsche Tequipment roll bar - no longer produced but available on eBay etc. BEst looking roll bar by far. I also went with the Euro GT3 seats and a 5-pt harness. I'm told the 6-pt is unnecessary in our cars and a 5-pt is fine.

SH || NC

The OEM / Schroth harness is actually a 6pt; there are 2 sub belts (link)

utkinpol

start not with buying flashy sparco suit and gloves but with your seats - if you are sure you can sacrifice rear seats - do just that

Also read current 2011 PCA club racing regulations regarding roll bar installs - DE requires you to obey it for roll bar install - you need metal to metal plates on a roll bar so choose carefully, GMG makes good ones I think - it has to get mounted on rear strut bolts and in front it has to have a metal plate and be bolted to the floor - do not get fooled with those roll bars on sale (likie vividracing sells now with 'discount') that get mounted with stock seatbelt bolts, it is not allowed.

so together with roll bar replace your comfy seats and here you will have several options - most comfortable option is GT2 bucket seats - with those you can drive it on street just fine, but it is also a most expensive option.
http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...lothSeats.html

then you can do recaro spg xl hans buckets which is a pretty much standard racing seat but if you intend to drive this car on street - you better visit any good shop and try it out first. my back is not compartible with those seats for regular street driving.
http://www.recaro.com/us/product-are...-hansr-xl.html

i get those for my car as I do need rear seats and do not want to spend on GT2 seats.
http://www.recaro.com/us/product-are...rtster-cs.html

they are better than stock standard seat but much worse than hans recaros for sport, but as any compromise - it is what it is.

another pretty 'standard' option for seats is to get usual cloth 996 GT3 buckets, especially if you find a used set on sale somewhere, but it has no HANS, so, choose for yourself.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-...at-2300-a.html

when you choose seats check if they do accomodate 6 point harness - means they have a hole in the base of the seat for sub belts.

essentially, seats, roll bar, hans, harness - that is what you need to put in, just make sure you are ready to do to your interior all those things and go forward.
if you are not very crafty you will need a good pro shop assistance to make a good brackets/sliders for an aftermarket seat unless you just want to bolt it down permanently in a single position, or if you buy a used one that comes with custom fitted sliders already.

Steamboat

Thanks for all the good advice.

Re: Application of PCA Club Sport Rules to DE Events: Does this (technically) mean that cars with non-compliant bolt-in bars would not be allowed to participate in DE's or will existing setups grandfathered or more likely just ignored? It appears that non-compliant systems are those that bolt to the front seat belt anchors and includes many of the popular marques. I've sent emails to GMG, RSS and DAS to get their thoughts.

Can anyone help me understand how extensively a car has to be modified to install a bar correctly and in accordance with PCA standards? Thanks,

TheOtherEric

There aren't really any rules for rollbars for DE use, except the broomstick test. Anything goes, within reason (at least in Chicago).

IMHO you should put your firesuit money into seats & harnesses & Hans first. But everyone has to weigh the risks themselves; I personally think the odds I'll need the safety from a HANS is much greater than the risk of fire in a street car doing DEs. But perhaps you're a much better driver than me and your car is prone to catching fire?

utkinpol

i would email your local DE chair with this question. IMHO if you do like your neck - take those club racing rules to consideration, they were not invented out of nowhere plus if you do not have any roll bar yet - why not to install a proper one?
official rules are posted on PCA web site and they are quite straight forward - look at appendix A in club racing booklet.

http://www.pca.org/Activities/Driver...Standards.aspx
http://www.pca.org/LinkClick.aspx?fi...EM%3d&tabid=73