You guys ROCK....This is exactly what I was looking for Thanks for all the input

 

I was hit from behind going into turn one at the Summit Point Club Race, came in to the black flag station as required and gave my side of the story. Car was done for the weekend due to bent suspension. When I went to see the Chief Steward, he was telling the other driver that he was most likely at fault, and then he approved me to continue the weekend so I could co-drive the afternoon enduro in a friend's car. So in my case the system worked, but it was pretty clear who was at fault to even the casual observer.

 

Take the time to check out NASA GTS. Inciidental contact is not penalized. If you do something stupid or flagrant you will get called on it.

 

I consider damage to my car a penalty, especially when it is not my fault. But I know what you mean.

I can't say, having raced in both, that NASA drivers are more reckless because there is no penalty for being too aggressive and bumping/rubbing someone. I had a couple of those with NASA that the other driver and I never reported because neither was upset and/or damage was so minimal that neither thought a penalty was called for. One incident was a rather aggressive attempt to block me from passing, I got by anyway with only very slight damage and some off-roading. The other incident involved a soon to be lapped car who was racing another car not realizing I was coming through and turned in on me in pursuit of his competitor. Being first overall and the first one to approach soon to be lapped traffic was always sphincteriffic!

 

Here is one of the articles by Brian Henderson (go to page 10) - http://www.pca.org/portals/crn/CRN-2010-3.pdf

 

It's a good point about corner etiquette info, it should be part of the rules document as well.

 

From the resident back marker.

Just remember no one owns the corner. Don't dive bomb or go in too hot and push a guy off the other side. Leave room for the faster folks. It's club racing. I will never forget that.

 

If I hit you on the way in it's not me, if I hit you on the way out it's you.

 

That's succinct and to the point Gary

 

I would echo those that have said that PCA does a good job of analysis and getting both sides before handing out a 13. In about 20% of the cases, I think there is genuine disagreement between the drivers as to who is at fault and in about 10% of the cases, the Stewards have to make VERY tough calls.

However, I would argue with those that say ANY contact between two cars is an automatic 13 for one of the drivers. I've been involved in one incident where the Stewards took the statements and wanted to give me a 13 until they saw the video. Had I not been running video, I would have gotten a 13. Even with that video, it was a VERY tough all and it ended with neither of us getting a 13. I think in this case it was due to them having pre-determined that I was going home and then my video giving me enough evidence to cause "reasonable doubt." In other words, a "hung jury."

 

Yeah two things...
Thing one......trust me when I tell you that the Regions are not going to influence the decisions of the National Stewards.......rules are the rules and apply to all including hard working Race Committee members.
Thing two... Peter do you ALWAYS have that video running?

 

Unlike NASA, PCA does not have a section of the rulebook explaining their rationales. NASA's is very good with diagrams and such.

Hence, PCA's is subjective and dependent on the point of view of a particular steward.

The 'you must come in the black flag station' has not been routinely enforced; they just come look for the driver later, but there is no penalty. They prefer video, so more gadgets to buy and maintain. Videos are still not eyes that can see around corners or with proper perception of depth and grading (not NFL quality video from consistent angles, ha ha).

NASA also lets you work it out with the other driver if it is minor or side to side contact. Not PCA.* Everything related to the 13/13 happens behind closed doors.

I also don't know why hitting a barrier and nothing else is less bad in the rules than hitting someone else. (Of course individual drivers prefer this difference, who wouldn't.) It still causes race delays and issues and encourages overdoing corners or situations. You could still endanger the corner workers.

If you appeal the decision, it goes to the steward who made the original decision; not sure why.

*I don't see what I call sportsmanship in this approach of not letting drivers work it out.
These are my honest opinions, willing to get it out there regardless.

 

Patti, I can assure you that the appeal does not "go to the steward who has made the original decision" The appeal goes to the national chair, who normally assigns it to the chief national steward, unless the chief was the steward working the race.

As national steward and as national chair I have over ruled steward's decisions from races. Normally based on after the fact video review but in a couple of instances simply based on later review of the facts. Trust me on that.

I can also tell you that the national stewards for PCA work very hard "getting it right" with no preconceptions of who is at fault. One of the stewards who started working as a steward a few years ago after having raced PCA since the second year of the program, a couple of years in Grand Am and an ALMS race or three plus two years in IMSA GT3 commented after a year's working as a PCA steward that he was surprised and pleased at how hard everyone worked to "get it right"

Larry, Charlie is correct that there isn't a pamphlet handed out at the Orientation Meeting (Obviously you haven't been "invited" to many!) Charlie, frankly no one had ever pointed that out before but it is something that I intend to address in my last month as chair. It won't be in the 2011 rules, as those are coming out very shortly (rules changes are already out) but should be in the 2012 rules.

 

I competed in my first PCA race this year and completed their licensing program. I found the entire process to be very professional and they are obviously very concerned with how their drivers behave. They do a superb job of making it very clear that PCA racing is not a contact sport. On the track I was in the top 10 of a 40+ car grid so I had lots of lapping to do and I found the drivers to be very aware of what's around them and "polite" to get by. Overall it was a very positive experience and I hope to do many more PCA events.

 

I don't think everything related to the 13/13 happens behind closed doors. It has been very open lately, communication with both parties. There seems to be some flexibility on the "rub out" rule where if you just touch someone and the paint mark can be buffed out and both parties agree, that there is no fault. For example with two hardcore racers/race cars with lots of hours on the drivers and coachwork, it's not quite the same as a rookie with an immaculate "street" car who drove it to the race. Good to have some flexibility and try to keep the majority of people happy without getting out of hand.

The club has been improving for years now, I think it's more fair now than ever.