rbauhart

Hello all,

I track an RS America heavily with a 993turbo brake setup on slotted alcon rotors. I have run pagid yellows(RS29) up front and blacks(RS14) in the rear in the past. I am thinking of trying pagid blacks up front and greys (RS15) in the rear.

Thoughts? I don't know anyone who runs the greys. My thoughts were better head resistance properties up front mainly, and to mimic some more rear bias int he rear with the high friction compound.

Thanks in advance for any advice or opinions.

Roland

sig_a

That would be at least an interesting, if not exciting, combination. Black at front and orange at rear I'm familiar with. And on a standard brake 911 Carrera, pressure required to threshold is easy to push through and requires a light touch no matter the speed.

Keep us posted regarding your impressions.

rbauhart

Will do. I am just trying to do some research for next season. I am looking for a little more rear bias, but don't want the car to be uncontrollable, or the pads too hard on the rotors.

Roland

CWhaley

you are looking for more rear bias? The set up you are running is the proper combination.

S4_Killer

imo, put the stock calipers back on and run pfc 97's all around, bigger brakes just make you slower 99% of the time

rbauhart

I am thinking that a little more rear bias would help as the fronts are wearing much more quickly than the rears, and the front rotors are really heating up more than the rears. I am also just going off some good sources that the 993RS rear caliper setup (bigger pistons than turbos) is better due to having some more rear bias overall.

I am not switching out my calipers, as it's too pricey. Just looking for some advice. Might just stay with the yellow/black pagid setup I have, take some weight out of the car, and get some better cooling on the brakes.

Roland

rbauhart

Bigger brakes definitely have not made me slower though!

CWhaley

Increase your cooling ducts and run the RS29/RS14 combo!

Bill Verburg

You have 993tt front and rear brakes? or just front.

the usual 964 bbk is 322x32 front rotors(these are the same size as used on 993tt front but have different o/s and construction) w/ either the o/s 964RS/t calipers or 993tt calipers and the small 993 or 964RS rear calipers w/ stock size 299x24mm rear rotors. W/ these setups up want to remove the p/v on the rear circuit and many run yellow front /black rear Pagid pads.

if you also have 993tt rear then you must have the 322x32 alcon w/o parking brakes setup. yes/no?

if you do have the 993tt rear set up then yes, 993RS rear calipers will use the same pads but have bigger pistons for more rear bias. You'll want a low stiff car w/ effective lsd for this to work well.

Astroman

I have a similar thread going about my own braking issues right now. This here sounds like my plan.

rbauhart

Bill,

Thanks for the advice. I think you have given me some advice in the past. I have done a lot of research and I am heading in the right direction with a really good setup:

Front brakes are 993turbo big red calipers with 332x32mm slotted two-piece alcon rotors, pagid yellow RS29's.

Rear brakes are 993turbo rear calipers with 322x28mm slotted two-piece alcon rotors, pagid black RS14's.

E-brake has been removed, and proportioning valve has been removed. I have been running Motul RBF600 fluid and I don't have any cooling to the brakes as of yet. My RSA weighs in at about 2800lbs, plus about 200lbs with me in it.

Thus far this has been a great setup most of the time. Unfortunately, when I first had it done, I did not get a chance to bed them in properly before going to the track, and I ended up warping the rotors after 3 days. So I had them re-machined (about 7/1000's of an inch off each corner), bedded them properly, and all was well for the season. No more warping or brake judder.

I did, although, have some problems with fade at a track that was very hard on brakes, with another 200lbs passenger in the car. Also, by the end of the season, the fronts are wearing much more than the rears, pads and rotors, and the rears definitely have more heat in the rotors, along with some uneven rotor wear (most likely due to the initial warping - hardened sections in the metallurgy properly).

So, my thoughts are this. I will be adding some good cooling to the brakes, both front and rear, running castrol SRF fluid, and replacing the discs with new ones, which I will be very careful to be properly. I think this should take care of any fading and warping issues.

As for the difference in wear from front to back, it would be ideal to go to 993RS rear calipers due to the larger pistons I think, although my LSD is the original factory one from 1993, so that might not be a great idea. I will eventually probably go to a new guards LSD, but not for at least another season. Also, my current 993turbo rear calipers have been modified to fit the rear, and may be tricky to sell, so i'd lose a lot of money going to 993RS rears. Hence the thought of maybe just some grippier rear pads, such as the pagid grey RS15's to mimic some more rear bias. Not sure if this is necessary, or if this would be a good idea though. Maybe too grippy

rbauhart

Sorry.

Maybe to high a friction compound. Maybe too hard on the rotors. Wanted to just entertain the idea anyway.

So, I think with the cooling, the fluid and the new discs, the yellow/black pad combo should be good with it all sorted out for next season on my current setup.

Any thoughts of yours on this topic would be much appreciated Bill, as I know that you know your stuff when it comes to brakes on our cars.

The other upgrade that i'd like to do down the road is the 993turbo master cylinder / brake booster setup, but not sure if it's necessary. It is a pricey upgrade on top of everything else.

Thanks again.

Roland

gnewman

I have the same set up as you do, love blacks all the way around with the proportioning valve removed. Have not seen "Greys"......thought blacks were the most aggressive. Had problems with oranges leaving pad material on the rotors.......giving you the judder as in a warped rotor.

Later.

Bill Verburg

OK, your car is very similar to mine except that I run 993RS rear, I understand the issue w/ you rear calipers. I like Pagid yellow f/r. You have a lot more front bias due to the tt rears so removing the p/v was a good move. cooling to the rotors, especially fronts is very important do you at least still have the stock scoops?, W/ tt rears I'd probably use yellow front/black rear. If you have a stock lsd you can have it rebuilt to be very effective, send it to Matt Monson.

David K.

Blacks all around and remove the brake bias-valve.