cannon1000

I just signed up for my first Autocross...unfortunately the last one of the year.

I have SA2010 helmet purchased from a sponsor here (ApexPerformance).
Signed up for permanent numbers w/Local club
Reusable Vinyl Numbers on Order.
Read the FAQ and recommended "stuff".

What recommendations from the group? I want to get a bin that will fit in the frunk with all my stuff. Here is a list along with comment / question on a few things on my checklist.

Tire Chalk - (Any other stuff used to mark tires? how do you mark the tire?)
Air Pump
Tire Pressure Gauge
Lots of Water/Gatorade
Food
Helmet
Chair
Helmet Liner ?
Gloves ?
Jacket ?
Do I need numbers on hood and doors or just doors?
Oil ? Funnel? Paper Towels? Tarp? Tools?

Driving Tips...I have had an autocross training event a few years back in a Subaru. I really feel like being my first time I am pretty nervous. Feel like I should play it safe and not push it too hard.

paradisenb

Don't over think this thing.

Tire Chalk - not really important. What are you marking? Hear cycles? If street tires, not important.
Air Pump and Tire Gauge: Good to have.
Water and food: Of course. There is a lunch break.
Helmet is required.
Chairs are nice.
Helmet Liner? Probably not.
Gloves, Jacket: Yes it is getting cold.
Numbers on doors only.
Oil, etc....Your only going to be on the course for about 4 minutes total all day. A few things are always nice but don't over do it.

Just go have fun.

aj986s

Marking tires can be helpful to help guage air pressure based upon the amount of roll-over where the tread meets the sidewall. The basic notion is that if the tire is rolling over beyond the edge/shoulder, you need more PSI. If the tire is not rolling over to the edge, you need less PSI. I've found that it becomes a bit grayer of a science with ultra-wide tires and/or super low profile. But it will help you determine a decent starting point of usable PSI. I recommend putting 3 marks on the outer edge, evenly spaced around each tire. After a run, see how much of the marking is worn away.

cannon1000

Thanks guys. I missed the last DE...just went and observed...so I figure the AutoX is a good starting point and an easy way to meet some new people.

I read the chalk thing from another PCA region Tips. Talked about tire rollover. I could see it being more of an issue on larger tires. You are probably right, very little rollover on my wide LP tires.

I know it's no high speed race...but I am still excited. Hopefully I can stay on the track and have some fun throwing the car around.

aj986s

FWIW, I've always advocated autox as a great platform to learn good driving skilz. You get to experience over- & under-steer, as well as braking behaviour at-the-limit at speeds much lower than on track. You'll learn alot about seat of the pants feel, without the higher risks at track speeds. And you'll also develop good hand speed on the steering wheel. I've seen lots of good autox'ers go on to quickly become good track drivers. Though autox runs are short, they can be very intense and require a lot of concentration and skill to do well.

Scootin159

+1 on don't over think it. We routinely have 1st timers show up with themselves and their car exactly as they would've driven it to the shopping mall, and they tend to have no problem. In general people at autocross are a very friendly group, and if you do find out at the 11th hour you forgot something really critical, you can almost always find someone willing to let you borrow whatever you may need.

In reality 99% of your result on your first day will be down to the driver - as such do not worry about car prep at all beyond a few simple things to help it hold up a bit better. You really don't need to do much, but before you leave for the event I would just check your oil level and add a bit of air to your tires. +5psi over the factory spec is probably a safe baseline, but if you know someone else with a similar car, just clone their pressures. Other than that, just clean all your junk out of the car and put numbers on it.

As for driver pre-prep - just the basic stuff you'll need to spend a day outside. Normally this means sunscreen and plenty of water/food, but you'll want to take the weather into consideration (umbrella?, snow suit?, etc). I almost always bring a chair (or two), but could count on one hand the number of times I've actually sat in it. If you have your own helmet, bring that too.

The rest of the basic prep stuff you'll just learn with time (how to pack best, etc.).

I'll do a second post with driving tips...

aj986s

I'll throw in a basic driver trip for first timers......don't worry about speed and times initially. Your primary goal as a beginner is to stay on course. Autox'ing is a sport, and a challenging one at that. The biggest hurdle that first-timers usually have to deal with is learning the course and getting comfortable with the "sea of cones".

If a course map is available, get a copy and study it over & over. When its time for a course walk-thru, do more than 1 if you can. And walk such that you can see the course ahead of you. Don't chit-chat. Do take advantage of walking with an autox veteran. The more you can memorize the course, the better you will do. The walk thru is your only practice!

Before your runs, if possible watch other cars on course. You'll probably have to course work a heat, so try to study the portion of the course you can see as much as possible, without neglecting your course worker duties of course.

Once in the car, strive for an on-course run. Many groups, including ours, will have veterans available that can ride with you and help guide you through the cones. If you're off course, your run DOES NOT COUNT. No sense in wasting runs try to fix mistakes you made in the previous run. Much better/easier to stay on course, and let the times fall naturally. Eventually, with experience, reading the cones/course will become easier, and you will find yourself running with the pack!

I care because I'm our PCA Region's Autox Chair. Been autox'ing on & off since the 1980's. Its a lot of fun. And every event I've been to is full of terrific, friendly and helpful people. Just DO IT! You won't regret it.

utkinpol

like others said - do not overthink this. just have fun.

still, you need to remember - auto-x is not DE and you will have to work in the field all day, so, be prepared - check forecast and be ready. if it may rain - take second set of clothes as well as raingear, spare set of dry socks, shoes, something to drink, some chops/crackers, an umbrella even if it does not rain.
think of yourself first. --- actually it is a good approach to find a plastic container with waterproof lid and put all this stuff into it so it would be ready any time - you just throw it in the trunk and do not have to think about it. just do not forget to dry it properly when it was wet before putting it back into the box, especially the shoes.

for numbers - if you do not yet dedicated number - get some painters tape and you will make number with it. if you will get into this you will have your permanent number and may order magnetic numbers later.
paper towels, yes, windex, goo-off product to remove cone marks from paint.

as of rest of stuff for the car - for first event most likely you will not need anything. air pressure is not that important if you start in novice group on street tires. it really depends of your car condition what to take with you.

cannon1000

This is why I am now a Rennlist MEMBER now!

You guys are great! All this helps - and hopefully others that are new to AutoX.

Anyone have experience with AWD (like in my TT), I read they tend to understeer, and I imagine that the course will have some tight turns to challenge drivers in correct cornering - and possibly force under/over steer if you don't get it right.

aj, do you have any course maps that you have used in the past? It would be great to see what a few look like. I know that mine will be completely different...but I am sure the elements are used in most autox.

Thanks!

Scootin159

Driving tips:

1) Get an instructor. Unlike HPDE, instructors aren't mandatory for beginners, and actually most regions don't even offer official instructors. However, nearly every group I've run with will let you both take an experienced driver along with you, as well as ride along with an experienced driver. If you know someone there who's been around awhile, have them recommended someone to you. If nothing else, if you ask at registration (or at the novice coursewalk), you can probably find someone qualified.

The reason I recommend this is that it's much more effective to have someone direct you as you're first learning. A typical novice will drop their times 10-20% over the course of their first event, but almost always those who drop the most times are those who take an instructor. Also don't take it as a sign of weakness to do so - I've personally won numerous local autox championships, and am our local chief instructor, yet I still try to get someone experienced in the car with me at least once per event.

2) Walk the course at least twice, preferably 3 or 4 times befor the event starts. To do this, you'll want to get there earlier, rather than later, as it will give you the most time for registering, going through tech, and walking the course. If you can find someone experienced to guide you around the course, great - use it, but I always reccomend walking the course once by yourself as well.

If you don't know the course, you can't possibly drive it well. Everyone has their own technique, but I'll share mine as a reference: At first just worry about memorizing the basic navigation of the course (walk 1). Then get someone experienced to point out the racing line on the course (walk 2-3). And finally walk the course by yourself at a fairly high-clip, and non-stop, just to give yourself a mental picture of exactly how it will flow when you're driving it (walk 4-5).

3) Slow in - fast out. If you feel the front end just doesn't want to turn in, or hold the line you want, you were simply too fast at entry - brake earlier next time. If you feel a corner was "cake", brake just a little bit later next time.

4) Smooth = fast. When taking a corner, ideally you should have one left and then one right motion of the steering wheel (or vice versa). Having to make several corrections may feel fast, but in reality it just unsettles the car more, costing you time. Likewise, don't be on & off the throttle at corner exit. Just be patient enough at corner exit to be able to treat the gas pedal as a one-way switch.

More advanced tip: If you find out mid-corner that the line you took is too tight, don't unwind the wheel to avoid nailing the inside cone. Instead, just give it a bit more gas. This will cause the car to understeer just enough to avoid the cone, and cost you minimal time. Likewise, if you find out mid-corner that you took too wide a line, and you're gonna nail the ouside cone - lift lightly - it will cause the car to oversteer just enough to put you back on your line. I say "advanced" on these tips, as too much correction could easily cause you to spin. On a track that's bad news, but on an autox course there's normally minimal risk.

5) Get close to the cones. I've heard it said that if you're 12" from a "key" cone, it will cost you ~0.1s on your time. More than 12" can easily be more than 0.1s. While that may not sound like much, being 2' (which really isn't that much) from each cone in a 5-cone slalom could easily cost you 1-1.5 seconds on your total time alone.

If by your third run you haven't just clipped a cone yet (I don't mean "killed" it, I mean just clipped it), mentally try to drive over the base of every "key" cone out there until you finally get to where you can hit every one. The courseworkers will love you, but it's really not a big deal.

Ask your instructor what I mean by "key" cones

utkinpol

do not think about the car too much. you will see that auto-x is way more about the driver than about the car. 'about the car' starts when you driving r-comps and get in the area of 2-3 sec within best time of the day.
if you track you car you probably do have proper aggressive alignment done already, so, just run it and you will see yourself how your car behaves after you spin it 2-3 times.

if you car is stock - try to resist the temptation to mod it as it will push you into more competitive classes. stay stock, it is still a lot of fun, well, for couple of seasons at least.

--- an excellent write-up in the response above. i would add one single advice - on your very first run - resist the temptation to go full throttle, instead go on way slower pace and look at the cones to memorize the proper path throw the course. chances are if you go off course on your first run and will not notice that - you will repeat same mistake automatically on a second run, etc. plus on a first run you will need to warm up your tires and you`ll need to learn how car control changes with your tires getting from cold to hot. you will check tire pressure before first run and checking it after next runs you will see how much more pressure you get and how it affects traction, after that choose that 'sweet spot' you like and maintain it.

-- also to add, if your car is new and nice - put painter tape on those plastic clear bras you have on your car hips, also if you have clear bra on your front bumper - put some painters tape there. black cone marks come off very easily from paint but they are very difficult to remove completely from plastic pieces and NEVER rub those plastic pieces too hard or you will damage them. goo-off product works fine. I just assumed if your car is turbo - most likely it should be a street car so you will want to keep it nice. do not overdo the paint tape thing - you do not need too much of it - but be aware that to look like a dork with some tape around the car is simpler and cheaper than to spend 2 hours later on your knees trying to rub off deep black marks. i usually cover only clear bra plastic on front bumper at the level where it hits cones plus hips with 2-3 lines of tape and it works perfectly well.

Scootin159

No offense, but at your first event you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in handling between a Corvette and a Mini. It's nothing unique to you (I haven't seen you drive), it's just from my experience of riding with tons of first-timers. Anything you can probably get your hands on will likely handle the same way to a novice:

1) Understeer at turn-in. Not because all new cars have inherent understeer (they do), but because you'll just be going too fast at entry and mid-corner.

2) Understeer at track-out. Because your car will still be plowing from turn in, and you'll just add more throttle to the mix at mid-corner, making the situation worse.

3) Occasional snap oversteer at track-out once you start to realize that you're giving it too much gas at mid-corner after entering the corner too fast, and you try lifting to make things better, but lift too much, and bring the rear end around.

But yes - AWD cars will marginally understeer more than their RWD or even FWD counterparts at turn-in. The degree of which really depends on the differentials you have - limited slip leads to more understeer. At track-out you'll have less understeer than a FWD car, but more than a RWD car.

Z-man

My $0.42:

- Have fun and relax. AX is friendly competition.

- While it is important to stay on course, if you know a particular section of the course and you won't get lost, then DON'T HOLD BACK. Go for it. Staying on course is one element of AX - but the other one is putting down a fast time.

- While it can be demoralizing to find that the guy posting fastest time of day is running a 4cyl 914, and is 10 seconds faster than you, don't compare your scores to his -- look at your main competition - rookies in similar cars - that's a better gauge on how you're doing.

- Smooth is the key in AX -- resist the urge to over drive your car and trash it around the corners. The more stable you can make the car (without giving up too much speed), the more the car can do for you.

- Tire pressures -- a couple of psi higher than the factory recommended is a good start. You won't really need to chalk them ,since you will be able to see how much the tires rollover by the scuff marks. I'm an advocate of 'set them and forget them.' Too often people will drastically alter their tire pressures, throughout the day, thinking they can go faster with micro adjustments. I don't even see the FTD guys doing this. And there's a whole lot more time to be found by improving the driver's skills.

- Did I mention - have fun?

-Z-man.

TwentySix

+1 On the over thinking your first events, if you keep it simple and just concern yourself with staying on course, speed will come to you in time. Your car will tend to understeer, think slow in, faster out of the turns... keep your eyes up and look ahead, always be anticipating the next turn. Here is an online tutorial I found helpful for novices a few years ago when I was chief instructor at SCCA/PCA autocross schools. There are some things mentioned that pertains only to the club who put this presentation together, i.e. schedules, club web site.... it was made for the Rocky Mountain Region SCCA in Colorado:

Rocky Mountain Solo-Autocross School Introduction

utkinpol

A6 hoosiers can gain more than 10psi on a hot day from cold to hot and you will have to adjust them and even pour water on them after runs to keep them at the sweet spot area.
it is not a requirement, it is a necessity. with less demanding r-comps it is way easier, so if one runs on v710 or r888 - it really may be 'set it and forget it' thing after they get into optimal pressure range after first run. but not so on A6if you want to get best possible time out of them.