Ubermensch

I've been casually DE'ing my 2001 C4 for the last several years. This car is both my daily driver and my weekend fun car. Unfortunatly living in Boston proper makes owning two seperate cars almost out of the question (parking/insurance rates). During a recent DE an instructor commented that I clearly enjoy driving and that I should give some thought to how to make it a long term hobby. Along those lines, I'm trying to decide whether it makes sense to continue investing time and money into my current car or whether it would make more sense to sell and pick up a 996 turbo that's a few years newer. I'd appreciate any feedback from a DE racing point of view...Here are my thoughts so far:

1)The power of the turbo would obviously be nice, but really not necessary. I'm the performance limiting factor, not my hp level. Money not spent on upgrading the car could be spent on seat time to improve my skill level.

2)From a DE standpoint, I would think the block design of the turbo would offer some reliability improvements over the NA engine. Any personal experience one way or the other? What would I need to do to the NA engine to improve it's longevity for track use?

3)Destroying and replacing the NA motor is roughly the price difference of selling my car and picking up a used turbo. My motor hasn't exhibited any problems over 106k miles that makes me think this will happen, but its something to consider.

Thanks for any advice,

Shawn

krystar

the more car you buy, the faster you get into trouble, and the bigger the bills are. not just for incidents but for upkeep too.

and DE is not racing.

himself

Try a 996 GT3 - way better track tool than the turbo. Leaps and bounds better. Around the same price as a Turbo as well. You can get a nice fairly low mileage GT3 for mid-50s. Pristine garage queens for mid-60s. Deals are around as well.

-td

jrgordonsenior

Solid advise. Additionally you don't want to keep playing with a AWD vehicle TT or not. It really limits your learning curve as you're fighting the FWD. The GT3 is far superior to the TT or 996 for DE'ing right out of the box....

Ubermensch

The fact that I'll still need to use this as a daily driver pushed me in the turbo direction over the GT3. I definitely respect the fact that the GT3 is the superior track car. I just think it might be too harsh for daily use.

Shawn

JG 996T

Having just returned from my first DE in my 996 Turbo - although its apparently not the best track car in the Porsche line-up - it was loads of fun. Since you're already used to the AWD, and are thinking about trading up to a "newer" (lower mileage) car, I say go for the turbo, especially since it will be a DD too. My car is not a DD, nor a track car, but I intend to enjoy it for about 3-6 track days a year.

If it was going to be a track car only, I would say GT3.

* My instructor at the DE also had an 02 996 Turbo, which he uses only as a "track car" (very well I might add). He's had it since new, and now has about 10,000 track miles on it. He said to me that he's never had any issues with the car.

himself

If you really need a 90% street car with 10% track, then you are spot on with the TT. At some point, the GT3 makes more sense - for me, around 70% street 30% track [although my car is about 70% track now ]. Make sure you ride in a TT on the track before you buy one. You will be surprised how different it really is compared to a NA car.

Other than the rear seats, the reason that the TT is so usable for a daily commute is the soft suspension, which affects its trackwothiness. FWIW, I drive my GT3 on the street, not every day, but often. I know others use them as DDs. It's really not bad, but it does lean into the realm of harsh when compared to a luxobarge caddy.

-td

NaroEscape

I have to disagree with this statement. A GT3 is no more harsh than 993/964/911 'vintage' cars. I think people have gotten too used to the cushy feel of a 996/997, so the GT3 feels 'harsh'. I drove one around for a couple weeks, and didn't find it any harsher than my 993. In fact, it actually has more creature comforts than any of the older 911's that MANY people use as daily drivers. Our region's Chief Instructor uses his 996 GT3 as basically a DD, he and his wife go everywhere in it.

But then again, I don't mind driving our very stiffly sprung 914/6 GT clone/race car every day either, so maybe I'm a bit odd....

himself

One other thought - if you want a NA car, the next best thing to a GT3 in the 996 variety is the 40th Anniversary edition [MY04]. It has the 3rd best 996 NA engine in it, with lots of upgrades standard. It is as close to a track oriented 996 as you get before the GT3 - almost like a bridge vehicle . There were only 1963 made, so they are limited/special and might hold value better. The ones that come up for sale are cheaper than a turbo or a GT3 [40th in the high 30s or low 40s], and are typically maintained well.

Some relevant standard specs:
X-51 [345 HP; 273 lb/ft tq]
LSD
M030 Suspension
PSM
3rd radiator
Body kit
Litronic Headlamps (Xenon)
Full Leather
Painted Rear Console
other cool stuff

-td

IcemanG17

I would say a 996 is better to learn how to drive-race on track......while the TT is faster, is costs quite a bit more to run on track...... However if you are looking for a mostly fun street car that occasionally goes to the track.....then the turbo is a good choice..BUT if you are serious about driving on track and getting MORE involved in track driving (very likely) then a GT3 is a great choice....

Heres my short story...back in 2006 I started driving my bone stock street 928 on track...quickly got addicted and wanted to go faster.....in 2008 I bought my E92 M3 to go fast on the track and drive on the street.....well after 1 trackday a 4mpg on 100 octane gas and destroyed front tires ($1000 consumables per day) to go 5 seconds a lap faster than my 928 I decided a true racecar was a better idea....so I bought a "real" race 928 in Oct 08....had to finish building it and spent lots of $$$$ I drove it 6 times and it blew the engine....(more $$$).....it took forever & $8k to get rebuilt and then blew up again....since a divorce didn't sound good I had to sell it.....BEST DECISION I EVER MADE

I bought a "lemons" race 928 and built it....essentially a gutted 1984 928 automatic that just RUNS...minimal work & low operating costs.....gas mileage is good, tires and brakes last a LONG time....and its fun to drive......sure its ugly, but I love passing cars with 3x the HP and 20x the investment!!!

The single best way to improve your lap times is to be a better driver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It cost me a pretty penny to figure this out.....

va122

it takes a very special person to DD a GT3on the boston streets. Duh snow. Get the turbo, it's got AWD

sparks259

normally a$pirated.
get my drift?

TR6

I'll just throw this out there... Keep your C4 daily driver to enjoy and buy a $5000 miata. You'll learn a lot and have a blast because you won't spend all your time worrying about your financial life coming to an end if you wad it up or blow up the motor. Just a thought. Now I return you to the all GT3 and Twin Turbo discussion...

(Insurance cost? Just get liability only on the miata. And how much space could it take to store a miata? Just keep it in your bedroom closet... )

IcemanG17

This is a great idea.......SM racing is a blast and about the least expensive you can find..... while my "race" 928 was blown up in 2009 I spent quite a bit of time driving SM's on track...I am 100% sure it made me a better driver.....it teaches SMOOTH......vs teaching "floor it"....

mglobe

A Miata in the closet? I thought buying a Miata meant you had come out of the closet?