Anyone heard from Tony Kelly (AKPHOS here) from Trackvision lately?
06-14-2010, 01:20 AM
#16
GT3 player par excellence
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Man, you should see MoTeC's i2 Pro! 
There's just about no limit to what you can do, which is why MoTeC and Pi Research rule the pro racing scene.
From what I see, there are three tiers:
- Deeply technical analysis for the pros, eg MoTeC and Pi Research
- Mid-level technical for advanced amateur racers, often with a coach or engineer on hand to translate for the drivers, eg the top two and maybe AiM, Racepak, and Race Technology
- Simpler to use, but functionally limited for the amateur, eg Traqmate
This is a generalization, so lets not argue about what fits where. The general point is that the deeper the analysis, the more complicated it is for the user.
I've had a few long discussions with logger vendors about a macro approach that would analyze a session by sector and produce a display that identified the areas where there was significant time to be picked up, and WHY time was being lost. You can do it manually, but it involves a lot of steps and channel comparisons that many users just don't have the time/familiarity/interest to go through. Think of it as a front end display that drives the native analytic functions. Its definitely doable, and would be a real value to most amateur racers.
There's just about no limit to what you can do, which is why MoTeC and Pi Research rule the pro racing scene.
From what I see, there are three tiers:
- Deeply technical analysis for the pros, eg MoTeC and Pi Research
- Mid-level technical for advanced amateur racers, often with a coach or engineer on hand to translate for the drivers, eg the top two and maybe AiM, Racepak, and Race Technology
- Simpler to use, but functionally limited for the amateur, eg Traqmate
This is a generalization, so lets not argue about what fits where. The general point is that the deeper the analysis, the more complicated it is for the user.
I've had a few long discussions with logger vendors about a macro approach that would analyze a session by sector and produce a display that identified the areas where there was significant time to be picked up, and WHY time was being lost. You can do it manually, but it involves a lot of steps and channel comparisons that many users just don't have the time/familiarity/interest to go through. Think of it as a front end display that drives the native analytic functions. Its definitely doable, and would be a real value to most amateur racers.
i am not saying your software has any issues, pls dont take it wrong way.
i am saying that there's a LARGE mkt that someone can capitalize....
my example. i was an architect. we use ACAD. the worst biggest POS software. NOTHING in the world is worse. NOTHING. we all use it bc it cornered the mkt, not bc it's good. NO one says ANYTHING positive about this program yet 99% of the world uses it. is it powerful ? yes. in what way? in ways that's useless to most users. in grad school, my prof and i would draw, design the project, cuss at the prog and recode it as we go. we can go "around" it and make it work, but that's not the point. the point is that it should JUST WORK. you buy an apple (the fruit) it doesn't come with instruction as how to eat it. you buy an apple (the computer) it doesn't come with manual and you know how to use it.
yes, a pro has a cadre of experts helping them out. but i cannot afford that. and most of us can't. so if motec, pi, blah blah can come up with a "self explanatory" system, i be more than happy to burn $5-8k on it.
most of us got stressful work so we use "driving" as a hobby. hobby should be fun and easy, not causing me having high blood pressure. i have that from work and wife already.
and the various system i had needs "download".... by a wire....
hum.... how about wireless....
i can go on..
but the bottom line is i am not that dumb but i really have no interest or energy to try to "get around" various data systems. either it works or it doesn't.
plug and play is like mac.
i bought a MBP, i bought a wireless printer. plug power cord in and plug into wireless router. i asked MBP to print, it found the printer and printed the doc. that's what i like.
sorry for the rant.
and again not directed at you.
but i am just not understanding why this aint working.
sh*t, we got humans on the moon before i was born..... this is not very hard.
06-14-2010, 01:22 AM
#17
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I'm with you Mooty, it's like some one at AIM said "Hey, let's make the software intuitive" and the president said "NO WAY!" Then it's "Hey, let's make a manual that the average club racer can go to and get his answers and procedures logically stated!" CEO says "AH FONGOUL to THAT!"
i have three advanced degrees from UCBerkeley and MIT. so i have a few brain cells left.
at this point of my life, if i have to read a manual to understand it, it's too complicated.
06-14-2010, 01:25 AM
#18
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I particularly like the awkward phrasing in the manual; not only do I need to figure out what some technical writer is trying to tell me, but I have to also deal with the lousy translation.
I do like the hardware, though. The dash, GPS, and now the SmartyCam seem to be really well thought out.
I do like the hardware, though. The dash, GPS, and now the SmartyCam seem to be really well thought out.
lots of lights. reminds me of xmas.
but to configure the stuff like rpm and the warning lights, that's not intuitive.
smarty cam is good too.
connecting smarty cam with AiM is not straight forward.
now i will STFU and give the mic back to gary and rick. carry on.
06-14-2010, 11:21 AM
#19
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I found that the SmartyCam was easy to hook up and configure, though I did have to burn a few brain cells. Luckily I only have an undergrad degree, so I have quite a few left.
I think that if someone came up with some report templates for the AIM, they would have a market with people like me.
(you might ask - why the heck does someone like Rick have an AIM dash? Answer is that it came with the car. Thank you, Alan C
).
06-14-2010, 11:22 AM
#20
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the dash is nice indeed.
lots of lights. reminds me of xmas.
but to configure the stuff like rpm and the warning lights, that's not intuitive.
smarty cam is good too.
connecting smarty cam with AiM is not straight forward.
now i will STFU and give the mic back to gary and rick. carry on.
lots of lights. reminds me of xmas.
but to configure the stuff like rpm and the warning lights, that's not intuitive.
smarty cam is good too.
connecting smarty cam with AiM is not straight forward.
now i will STFU and give the mic back to gary and rick. carry on.
I will say that a well written manual for even mediocre software, for me, can have me doing just about anything without hair-pulling and anxiety. AIM's software is very good, but I believe I have about 10 AIM Manuals downloaded, many that address specific things, and not one of them is what I would call "well written". Mooty, AIM has a solution to the wired download but it will cost you. It's the Data Hub and Data Key. I had it installed with the dash and it's actually a good thing. The data is redundant (also stored in the dash) and hooking in peripheral devices is easier..
Last edited by Gary R.; 06-14-2010 at 11:40 AM.
09-11-2010, 04:33 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
Tony, you out there? I sent you an email. Perhaps it didn't get through. Can you PM me your email as I'd like to ask you a couple of questions re purchasing the product.
Thanks
Thanks
09-11-2010, 08:53 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Man, there is some truth in this thread. I feel for Tony as as a supplier there is no way to remedy or respond to the kernel of it: As succinctly put by Mooty, the right 'plug and play' product does not yet exist from the consumers standpoint.
I just bought a TraqMate second hand as it was a 'deal'. So, started to 'learn' the thing. 102 page manual, written as described above. User interface, balky and bulky. Can you 'learn' it, yes. Is it a 'joy' to use, no. Add into the equation the separate video interface software (if no low res chase cam), uggg .....
I rationalize it by saying, over and over, that: (1) you lie to yourself on the track and data is the only way to truly see what it is you really do, and (2) what else is there to do all winter in the NE..
And the TM is considered 'user friendly'...
I just bought a TraqMate second hand as it was a 'deal'. So, started to 'learn' the thing. 102 page manual, written as described above. User interface, balky and bulky. Can you 'learn' it, yes. Is it a 'joy' to use, no. Add into the equation the separate video interface software (if no low res chase cam), uggg .....
I rationalize it by saying, over and over, that: (1) you lie to yourself on the track and data is the only way to truly see what it is you really do, and (2) what else is there to do all winter in the NE..
And the TM is considered 'user friendly'...
09-12-2010, 03:17 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
I have to agree. It almost seems like it's revenge of the nerds. "I'll show you guys for pushing me around in Maths class. Go figure this out!!"
Really it could be soooo much easier to put together the software to be user friendly. You should have a one button start-stop for basic timing. You should have a damn manual that doesn't require a degree in Astro Physics to decipher it. With the RaceTech DL1 and Dash 3 you have to separately configure each module and the flash card is the thing that stores all the info. They don't even talk to each other even though they are connected! wtf??
Anyway, in this case I just want to purchase the Trackvision software but want to ask a few questions. I have emailed Tony from his given Rennlist email address. I have bumped this thread. No avail. I know he was away sailing but I thought that was some time ago and he's back on deck.
Otherwise, can someone else direct me to a software package that I can just marry up with existing and new video? I assume you send your video to the software, and then you send some info from your logs and cue them up? This sounds tricky, but I'm sure it's easier to do....or am I....
Really it could be soooo much easier to put together the software to be user friendly. You should have a one button start-stop for basic timing. You should have a damn manual that doesn't require a degree in Astro Physics to decipher it. With the RaceTech DL1 and Dash 3 you have to separately configure each module and the flash card is the thing that stores all the info. They don't even talk to each other even though they are connected! wtf??
Anyway, in this case I just want to purchase the Trackvision software but want to ask a few questions. I have emailed Tony from his given Rennlist email address. I have bumped this thread. No avail. I know he was away sailing but I thought that was some time ago and he's back on deck.
Otherwise, can someone else direct me to a software package that I can just marry up with existing and new video? I assume you send your video to the software, and then you send some info from your logs and cue them up? This sounds tricky, but I'm sure it's easier to do....or am I....
09-12-2010, 11:50 AM
#24
Race Director
nothing against trackvision and i dont have it.
but all these so called data systems out there are simply pathetic for club racers.
i only wish someone can convince steve jobs to have apple make something that normal ppl can comprehend. i had AiM, gbox, DL1 and trackmate, quite frankly they all need a lesson from apple.
but all these so called data systems out there are simply pathetic for club racers.
i only wish someone can convince steve jobs to have apple make something that normal ppl can comprehend. i had AiM, gbox, DL1 and trackmate, quite frankly they all need a lesson from apple.
09-12-2010, 12:41 PM
#25
We've been in the cave getting V2.1.6 ready to go out. I've been avoiding RL like a recovering junkie for the last week or two. There's no sign of your email. Even checked in Spam. So, unless you're selling Viagra I don't think I have it.
Send to Tony[at]Trackvision.net or Support[at]TrackVision.net and we'll get you sorted.
09-12-2010, 05:23 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Email sent. Thanks Tony.
