mglobe

Now that I'm instructing, I'm in and out of cars like crazy on track days. Often I jump out of my car with helmet and HANS on, and jump into a student's car that has a 3-point belt only. It's faster and easier to just leave the HANS on, buckle up, and go. But I'm wondering if there are any significant safety issues associated with this. I understand that the HANS won't do any good with a three-point. The question I have is if it poses any danger.

Comments?

smlporsche

Not sure Mike but I usually try to take off the HANS and put on a collar if time permits..

gbaker

Mike,

Lateral loads will increase, especially shear, but upper neck tension loads can still be controlled with one belt on the right shoulder, as shown on the videos here. If the right (only) belt is lost, of course, there are other issues.

paradisenb

Mike, the only thing that really makes sense for instructing is an R3 or similar device that doesn't require harnesses. With the $$ you save on entry fees you could probably justify the cost in a few events.
I used a collar prior to HANS but I don't think they make any quantitative difference.

Jerseybean

I have a used R3 you can have for cheap if your interested, it's a XL from 2007.

todinlaw

I would think you are further ahead to put on a collar or use a hutchens Hybrid that straps to your chest for additional support. I have the Hutchens, but don't use it when I am instructing unless they have belts, same reason I don't wear my fires suit either.

mglobe

Thanks for the comments guys. R3 is a possibility. I'm more concerned right now about whether or not I'm less safe with the HANS on using a 3-point than I am using a 3-point without a HANS.

dan212

If they have a harness, the HANS stays on. If they have a 3-point, the HANS comes off

onefastviking

I would ask HANS directly.
http://hansdevice.com

Bri Bro

1+

Bryan Watts

I don't understand this statement...do belts somehow determine whether or not a car can catch on fire?

ltc

http://hansdevice.com/s.nl/it.I/id.4/.f

What type of shoulder belts work best with a HANS Device?

# Any SFI approved shoulder harness system works fine with the HANS Device.
# 2" or 3" shoulder belts in nylon or polyester work fine with the HANS Device.
# Be sure to mount and replace your belts in accordance with manufacturer guidelines. Only the HANS Device spreads the belts around your neck, preventing chafing and maximizing belt performance.

FURTHER INFORMATION
# 6 or 7 point belt systems work better than 4 or 5 point systems because they arrest the motion of the pelvis earlier in the incident, leading to lower levels of injury.
# Based upon better performance characteristics, we prefer that drivers use polyester belts.
# Remember to life your belts! Nylon loses 80% of its strength in two years due to exposure to sunlight and air alone.


IMHO, 3 point = do not wear.

ltc

This sort of gave me a chuckle....apparently they don't watch all the videos....ah, lawyers (who clearly don't understand that Sir Isaac's Laws are really laws and not just suggestions):

http://hansdevice.com/Do-some-should...he-HANS-Device
Do some shoulder belts slip off the HANS Device?

# No. Properly mounted belts do not slip off the device.
# If your shoulder belts will not stay securely on the device chances are that you do not have the belt mounts properly located in your chassis. For more information see the Quick Start Guide section on shoulder belt mounting go here and scroll down to Quick Start Guide.
# The HANS Device actually maximizes belt performance by spreading the belts around your neck, allowing the belts to be mounted as close together as possible for best performance. In over 3600 crashes involving HANS Device use as inspected by NASCAR there was not even one concern about belt retention or slippage.

gbaker

Always worth a grin.

BTW, Congress, in the interest of public safety, is revising Sir Isaac's famous law, F=MA to F=MA x 0.85. And it's about time.

ltc

Mike,
FWIW, if you are instructing, I would suggest an SFI 38.1 wearable H&N restraint.

R3, one of the Hutchens Hybrids (I've lost count of the variants), etc...they've all been discussed and linked here before.

Although AFAIK none have been tested with 3 point belts, I would feel better with a wearable SFI H&N rather than a HANS and a 3 point.