DTM vs BTCC
12-07-2009, 02:27 PM
#1
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DTM vs BTCC
I was watching the first races in both series this weekend...There is a lot of talent and hard driving in the BTCC but there seems to be very little crossover to other international series. The DTM seems to attract drivers from other series, even F1 (R. Schumacher, Kristensen, Rockenfeller, Alesi, Hakkinen) and DTM drivers are being looked at for other series (Paffett, Winkelhock), but not so for the BTCC drivers?
Experience and talent seem to be on very high levels in both series but few drivers seem to make it in or out of the BTCC.
Just curious what you guys think...
Experience and talent seem to be on very high levels in both series but few drivers seem to make it in or out of the BTCC.
Just curious what you guys think...
12-07-2009, 09:07 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
My guess: factory support in DTM, and they're tube-frame cars with ~470 bhp. Kristensen and Rockenfeller drive for Audi at Le Mans for example. They both also race for Audi in DTM. Seems logical to me. Paffett and Winkelhock are Mercedes drivers, and I believe the F1 team in question for Paffett uses Mercedes engines.
BTCC cars are built and run by mostly privateer teams, and the cars are based on production cars, and have much less HP.
It should be noted that former BTCC champ Fabrizio Giovanardi raced Bathurst with V8 Supercar a couple years back...so even the BTCC guys get thrown a bone every now and again.
I guess it's like comparing GP2 to Formula BMW...talent in both, but one is more "prestigious" than the other
BTCC cars are built and run by mostly privateer teams, and the cars are based on production cars, and have much less HP.
It should be noted that former BTCC champ Fabrizio Giovanardi raced Bathurst with V8 Supercar a couple years back...so even the BTCC guys get thrown a bone every now and again.
I guess it's like comparing GP2 to Formula BMW...talent in both, but one is more "prestigious" than the other
12-08-2009, 09:35 PM
#3
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There was some fine driving this year in BTCC, it is in doubt right up to the last race of the season. I also like the 3 race BTCC rules, the last race of the day is sometimes the most exciting.
Fabrizio has some skill as a drover and Plato is just mental.
Fabrizio has some skill as a drover and Plato is just mental.
12-08-2009, 10:47 PM
#4
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As Tiff Needell put it: the best racing always comes from overpowered (for the handling) RWD cars (think Aussie V8s!).
12-09-2009, 05:12 AM
#5
In a sense, yes it's a bit hard to move out/up. Mainly because of cost and manufacturer connection, rather than talent.
BTCC is very much a S2000 based racing series, just like DTC, STCC, WTCC. It's a plattform with cross-over opportunities. And in a racing perspective it is also a lot cheaper to run these series either as independent or factory backed and there are even ideas on running spec. engines. This is the main backbone of the touring car racing community in Europe and both a stepping stone to a place like DTM and a retirement place for others.
The DTM is more factory packed prototype racing and the main difference except the cars themselves is the running costs that are several multiple times the S2000. And the cars themselves are in general even faster the GT1 race cars.
Many of the drivers in both series have similar resumes, come from the same community and meet up in endurance events like Le Mans, Nürburgring and Spa.
BTCC is very much a S2000 based racing series, just like DTC, STCC, WTCC. It's a plattform with cross-over opportunities. And in a racing perspective it is also a lot cheaper to run these series either as independent or factory backed and there are even ideas on running spec. engines. This is the main backbone of the touring car racing community in Europe and both a stepping stone to a place like DTM and a retirement place for others.
The DTM is more factory packed prototype racing and the main difference except the cars themselves is the running costs that are several multiple times the S2000. And the cars themselves are in general even faster the GT1 race cars.
Many of the drivers in both series have similar resumes, come from the same community and meet up in endurance events like Le Mans, Nürburgring and Spa.
12-09-2009, 12:58 PM
#7
DTM was great when it was more similar to BTCC or WTCC. Check this from the great years:
http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/...-onboards.html
http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/...-onboards.html
Those where the days, great video - thank you for posting it!
A comment on the blog poster; 1994 Alfa lost the title due to "dirty" driving by Roland Asch robbing Nannini of the title.
3:12 - Has a short glimse of Nanninis Revenge from Asch's car.
Here's a full video of it with the Alfa burning. One of Touring Car Historys famously known take outs.
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12-09-2009, 12:59 PM
#8
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12-09-2009, 03:37 PM
#10
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In a sense, yes it's a bit hard to move out/up. Mainly because of cost and manufacturer connection, rather than talent.
BTCC is very much a S2000 based racing series, just like DTC, STCC, WTCC. It's a plattform with cross-over opportunities. And in a racing perspective it is also a lot cheaper to run these series either as independent or factory backed and there are even ideas on running spec. engines. This is the main backbone of the touring car racing community in Europe and both a stepping stone to a place like DTM and a retirement place for others.
The DTM is more factory packed prototype racing and the main difference except the cars themselves is the running costs that are several multiple times the S2000. And the cars themselves are in general even faster the GT1 race cars.
Many of the drivers in both series have similar resumes, come from the same community and meet up in endurance events like Le Mans, Nürburgring and Spa.
BTCC is very much a S2000 based racing series, just like DTC, STCC, WTCC. It's a plattform with cross-over opportunities. And in a racing perspective it is also a lot cheaper to run these series either as independent or factory backed and there are even ideas on running spec. engines. This is the main backbone of the touring car racing community in Europe and both a stepping stone to a place like DTM and a retirement place for others.
The DTM is more factory packed prototype racing and the main difference except the cars themselves is the running costs that are several multiple times the S2000. And the cars themselves are in general even faster the GT1 race cars.
Many of the drivers in both series have similar resumes, come from the same community and meet up in endurance events like Le Mans, Nürburgring and Spa.
That makes good sense.
I wish more factories would compete in the DTM (BMW for instance) and I'd love to see what a Jason Plato or Matt Neal etc could do in an international series like ALMS or even GrandAm.
12-09-2009, 03:49 PM
#11
I prefer WTCC to BTCC, but thats just my opinion.
DTM seems to collect alot of drivers from the GP2 ranks, and other junior formula series.
BTCC on the other hand, like British GT, has a pretty limited international following, and there isn't alot of money in it. It also attracts alot of privateer drivers, owner/drivers and gentleman/paying drivers.
As for Jason Plato, this video should sum it up. Watch to 1:50 for the real story...
DTM seems to collect alot of drivers from the GP2 ranks, and other junior formula series.
BTCC on the other hand, like British GT, has a pretty limited international following, and there isn't alot of money in it. It also attracts alot of privateer drivers, owner/drivers and gentleman/paying drivers.
As for Jason Plato, this video should sum it up. Watch to 1:50 for the real story...
12-09-2009, 04:34 PM
#15