Recommendations - car for DE
11-17-2009, 11:42 AM
#16
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A properly prepped 944 NA with a VG driver is about a 1:03.x at Limerock vs. a fuly prepped 911 SC in D with a top driver in the 1:01's. Not too much difference. At the Glen it's about 5-6 seconds IIRC. My buddy just bought a newly rebuilt 944 engine (done right) WITH a rebuilt gearbox w/LSD for about $3500. Can't even do a top end on my car for that...
11-17-2009, 11:57 AM
#17
Instructor
If you fit then a Spec Miata would be a very cheap way to get into DEs in a semi safe car. I'm 6'4" so that won't work for me. Also a built Spec 944 will also give you a fun car. I also used to race an '89 Civic but sold it and now have a daily driver like that I still run at track days. With a Honda they are pretty much bulletproof mechanically and parts are very, very cheap compared to European cars - for instance 944 Clutch $500 versus $250 for a Civic). Swap in a low mileage used DOHC VTEC motor (was optional motor in every country but USA) and you have 170 hp in a 2,100 lb car. Quite fun to drive and you can really wring them out in the corners.
you will fit in an SM, minor mods made to floor pan and non adjustable seat bolted directly to the floor and far back will work.
11-17-2009, 12:00 PM
#18
Instructor
NASA has a great Spec E30 following in the NE, and I think it would be a legal ITA car in SCCA. I just drove a spec E30 last weekend and it was great, handling not far off my E30 which is far from Spec E30.
11-17-2009, 02:35 PM
#19
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944s are starting to get way outgunned in DE. Having other cars to run with in DE is a large % of the fun factor. Not to "win" the DE just to have other cars on track that are about the same speed as you so you have others to drive with. Trying to catch another driver that is slightly faster or to chase a slightly slower car gives you rerason to improve. Grinding gas into noise by yourself makes working to improve more of a task IMO.
The cars are getting faster and the NA 944s are getting left behind. They also seem to have a shorter mean time between failure than some of the other platforms. I would look into a track prepared 911. There are many out there right now.
The cars are getting faster and the NA 944s are getting left behind. They also seem to have a shorter mean time between failure than some of the other platforms. I would look into a track prepared 911. There are many out there right now.
That said, if I could hand someone my bonus check and my 944, and get back a 944 with an LS1.......
11-17-2009, 09:29 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
Here's my two cents...sounds like you are pretty experienced at the AX level. So, it is likely you will move up quickly in the DE's. For sure at the longer tracks as you move up in run group you will find yourself becoming a moving chicane. I instruct for PCA and BMW and I don't go out in the instructor group anymore in my 924S unless I have to demonstrate something to a student. I just don't want to hold the other guys up. Moving down a run group or two doesn't work because of the scheduled student run groups. I built the car with the intent to run with my daughter in PCA Club race events but she boogied for Grad School in Florida so I am stuck with a car that I have sunk a ton of "stupid money" into (and am getting ready to sink more over the winter). Were I to do it over again I would look at 968, 951 or maybe a decent 964. A mid 90's M3 has appeal. Todd at J-3 keeps trying to convince me to stick an LS1 into it a be done with it......God love my bride, she keeps telling me I need a faster car!
11-17-2009, 10:56 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
11-17-2009, 11:24 PM
#22
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If you are interested in learning, a well preped 944 na with good maint history and safety gear is a great platform. I have driven many weekends in the instructors group with only a couple of point bys...I don't care. That means that nobody is holding me up. Also the bone stock 951 I tracked for 3 years is just sitting in my side yard if anybody is interested....it served its purpose well.
11-17-2009, 11:55 PM
#24
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It runs , no LSD, M030 sways, well maintained over the years just a little ignored ib the last year or so...PM me and I will provide further details. Car was purchased from a RLer in the ATL area going on 6 years ago.
11-18-2009, 01:42 PM
#25
Mr. Excitement
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I'm facing this issue, and it gets worse as I graduate to the higher run groups. The solution is to buddy up with the right folks and stage with them in the pits. 944s play very nicely with Miatas and E30s, as well as a variety of "imperfect" track cars (dual purpose cars that may not have the grip). It sucks to give a bunch of point-bys, but it's much more rewarding when you get one!
That said, if I could hand someone my bonus check and my 944, and get back a 944 with an LS1.......
That said, if I could hand someone my bonus check and my 944, and get back a 944 with an LS1.......
lap times are not the only thing. where you are quick matters too. 2 cars might be a second apart but one is fast in the corners and the other on the straights. They will not play well with each other.
Look at what others in your goal groups are running then try and fit in if the budget will let you. Cheap to fix does help but only a little if breakdowns spoil your weekend.
11-18-2009, 01:49 PM
#26
Race Director
open passing (ie passing anywhere including corners) is help in lower power good grip car.
I think the best form of flowing DE is where no point need on the straights and then pass in corners with a point. This helps reduce flow issues and you have big train of fast hp cars behind you they just drive by on the straights without a car in the world. You spend less time pointing and more time driving. Then you try to pass a hp car at short straight where you have momentum and he does not want to give you a point. Of course in the corners you need play nice, but you can still earn a point in the twist bits where you can actually make that pass stick.
Then again in Racing you just pass any place there is room. That is even better.
I think the best form of flowing DE is where no point need on the straights and then pass in corners with a point. This helps reduce flow issues and you have big train of fast hp cars behind you they just drive by on the straights without a car in the world. You spend less time pointing and more time driving. Then you try to pass a hp car at short straight where you have momentum and he does not want to give you a point. Of course in the corners you need play nice, but you can still earn a point in the twist bits where you can actually make that pass stick.
Then again in Racing you just pass any place there is room. That is even better.
11-19-2009, 12:42 AM
#28
I faced the same issue recently. After hitting a tirewall and paying for the repairs out of pocket, I realized I didn't want to beat up my 911 nor could I afford to keep it on the track.
I needed something that:
1) I could afford, and
2) I wasn't so emotionally attached to so I could dent it occasionally
Hence, a Miata.
I couldn't keep up with all the overpowered turbos, Vettes, Vipers, and GT3s in my 3.2L 911 anyway. So what's the difference?
A 944 wasn't a realistic option as it was going to be too expensive to run. So was a dedicated track 911 or a Boxster. Thus it was a Miata or quit doing DE. If I'm a little slower, then so be it. If the dudes in the high-hp cars can't handle the fact that there are low-hp cars on the track then they need to step up to racing and get out of DE.
It isn't supposed to be about who has the best traction control, ABS, AWD, horsepower, turbo charger... it's supposed to be about DRIVING. I'm going to be a fantastic driver in my non-power-steering, non-ABS, non-traction-control, 110hp, 1996 Miata than a lot of people in 2010 super machines. And I'll be smiling as they pass me on the straight. Because they couldn't in the twisties
Get something you can afford to keep on the track. Otherwise, all the fun goes out of it very quickly.
I needed something that:
1) I could afford, and
2) I wasn't so emotionally attached to so I could dent it occasionally
Hence, a Miata.
I couldn't keep up with all the overpowered turbos, Vettes, Vipers, and GT3s in my 3.2L 911 anyway. So what's the difference?
A 944 wasn't a realistic option as it was going to be too expensive to run. So was a dedicated track 911 or a Boxster. Thus it was a Miata or quit doing DE. If I'm a little slower, then so be it. If the dudes in the high-hp cars can't handle the fact that there are low-hp cars on the track then they need to step up to racing and get out of DE.
It isn't supposed to be about who has the best traction control, ABS, AWD, horsepower, turbo charger... it's supposed to be about DRIVING. I'm going to be a fantastic driver in my non-power-steering, non-ABS, non-traction-control, 110hp, 1996 Miata than a lot of people in 2010 super machines. And I'll be smiling as they pass me on the straight. Because they couldn't in the twisties
Get something you can afford to keep on the track. Otherwise, all the fun goes out of it very quickly.
11-19-2009, 07:57 PM
#29
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I'm surprised no one else has mentioned it, but the Lotus Elise/Exige is a hoot at the track, and very reliable. Early ('05) Elises are in the mid-20's, and personally I think they are way more fun than a Miata, an E36 BMW, or a 944. I've put two years of DE's on my '05 Elise with just tires and brake pads. On track performance seems to be about equal to (if not a bit quicker than) Boxster S.
Gary
Gary
11-19-2009, 08:25 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Nick a tire wall in a Miata and go buy a new $75 fender or just hammer it out in the pits. Elise's explode when the hit something. If you can run DE insurance (about $1000 for 10 events per year in a $25K car) then WTH, get whatever you can afford!