Downshifting Question
10-27-2009, 11:57 AM
#16
Intermediate
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I typically go down through each gear. Only exception may be Turn 5 at Road America where the car is so unsettled that I need to keep both hands on wheel and then go from 6th down to second right before turn in.
10-27-2009, 12:20 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
It seems that accurately matching revs with a single blip from 5th to 2nd would also be difficult. You would have to be very patient.
I agree that rev-matching in each gate while keeping the clutch depressed (option #2) is pointless but like I said, it's habit to heel/toe each downshift and I can't make myself not do it... or at least it would require wasted concentration.
2nd gear feels pretty good in 10a-b... I think I would lug in 3rd, especially trying to get up the hill to the bridge. With my 17" wheels, I think I can get to around 60 mph at redline in 2nd...
Thanks for the feedback. Randy, it was good to meet you, too.
10-27-2009, 12:25 PM
#18
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I've tried multiple options there... I find that if I'm dropping through 5th-4th-3rd and actually letting the clutch out in 4th, I lose too much decel to be competitive. So I preferred to "stir" it through 4th, so as not to get confused, induce the synchro wear, but only declutch in 3rd - allows me to keep the decel up on entry.
That said - usually I can just wind the car out in 4th there, zing the tach, and keep it in 4th. Running hard at Road Atlanta, don't even bother with 5th, just run 4th. Allows me to go deeper by far into 10a, when everyone's messing with their shifters I can focus harder on the braking.
1 gets even better - no shifting required, stays in 4th the whole way!
That said - usually I can just wind the car out in 4th there, zing the tach, and keep it in 4th. Running hard at Road Atlanta, don't even bother with 5th, just run 4th. Allows me to go deeper by far into 10a, when everyone's messing with their shifters I can focus harder on the braking.
1 gets even better - no shifting required, stays in 4th the whole way!
10-27-2009, 12:56 PM
#19
Platinum Dealership
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Same here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3hutjAiqi8
10-27-2009, 01:06 PM
#20
Drifting
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I go through each gear, letting the clutch out each time for a few reasons:
1) I always want the option for going back to max power when I need to. I've actually gone back to throttle in a heavy braking zone before in order to avoid a car spinning beside me.
2) It's much easier to rev match one gear at a time than to make a 5000+ RPM rev match from 5th to 2nd gear at the end of the braking zone. Normally, you're also trail braking, so trying to make such a large throttle blip really limits your ability to balance the brakes on the very limit.
3) Despite what folks say, there is PLENTY of time for multiple downshifts. In a Formula Mazda, I was able to go from 5th to 1st in the 10a braking zone a Road Atlanta, with a blip in each gear, while braking around the 150ish marker. If your downshifts are that slow, you're doing something wrong IMO.
1) I always want the option for going back to max power when I need to. I've actually gone back to throttle in a heavy braking zone before in order to avoid a car spinning beside me.
2) It's much easier to rev match one gear at a time than to make a 5000+ RPM rev match from 5th to 2nd gear at the end of the braking zone. Normally, you're also trail braking, so trying to make such a large throttle blip really limits your ability to balance the brakes on the very limit.
3) Despite what folks say, there is PLENTY of time for multiple downshifts. In a Formula Mazda, I was able to go from 5th to 1st in the 10a braking zone a Road Atlanta, with a blip in each gear, while braking around the 150ish marker. If your downshifts are that slow, you're doing something wrong IMO.
Last edited by Bryan Watts; 10-27-2009 at 02:47 PM.
10-27-2009, 01:09 PM
#21
Platinum Dealership
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
I agree there is plenty of room for downshifts and in the mx5 we went from 5th to 2nd but bryan lets remember the 915 transmission or even the g50 is waaaaay longer and sloppier than the FMazda..haha
10-27-2009, 01:12 PM
#22
Drifting
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-27-2009, 01:46 PM
#23
It's just personal preference. In my slow car I'm braking just inside the 100, which does compress the time to get the downshifts done, so I skip 4th.
Jack - were you part of the Kentucky mob? for some reason I didn't place you with them. That's an impressive crowd that shows up at our DE's!
Jack - were you part of the Kentucky mob? for some reason I didn't place you with them. That's an impressive crowd that shows up at our DE's!
10-27-2009, 01:59 PM
#24
Three Wheelin'
I go through each gear, letting the clutch out each time for a few reasons:
1) I always want the option for going back to max power when I need to. I've actually gone back to throttle in a heavy braking zone before in order to avoid a car spinning beside me.
2) It's much easier to rev match one gear at a time than to make a 5000+ RPM rev match from 5th to 2nd gear at the end of the braking zone. Normally, you're also trail braking, so trying to make such a large throttle blip really limits your ability to balance the brakes on the very limit.
3) Despite what folks say, there is PLENTY of time for multiple downshifts. In a Formula Mazda, I was able to go from 5th to 1st in the 10a braking zone a Road Atlanta, with a blip in each gear, while braking around the 200 marker. If your downshifts are that slow, you're doing something wrong IMO.
1) I always want the option for going back to max power when I need to. I've actually gone back to throttle in a heavy braking zone before in order to avoid a car spinning beside me.
2) It's much easier to rev match one gear at a time than to make a 5000+ RPM rev match from 5th to 2nd gear at the end of the braking zone. Normally, you're also trail braking, so trying to make such a large throttle blip really limits your ability to balance the brakes on the very limit.
3) Despite what folks say, there is PLENTY of time for multiple downshifts. In a Formula Mazda, I was able to go from 5th to 1st in the 10a braking zone a Road Atlanta, with a blip in each gear, while braking around the 200 marker. If your downshifts are that slow, you're doing something wrong IMO.
10-27-2009, 02:05 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
That said - usually I can just wind the car out in 4th there, zing the tach, and keep it in 4th. Running hard at Road Atlanta, don't even bother with 5th, just run 4th. Allows me to go deeper by far into 10a, when everyone's messing with their shifters I can focus harder on the braking.
I go through each gear, letting the clutch out each time for a few reasons:
1) I always want the option for going back to max power when I need to. I've actually gone back to throttle in a heavy braking zone before in order to avoid a car spinning beside me.
2) It's much easier to rev match one gear at a time than to make a 5000+ RPM rev match from 5th to 2nd gear at the end of the braking zone. Normally, you're also trail braking, so trying to make such a large throttle blip really limits your ability to balance the brakes on the very limit.
3) Despite what folks say, there is PLENTY of time for multiple downshifts. In a Formula Mazda, I was able to go from 5th to 1st in the 10a braking zone a Road Atlanta, with a blip in each gear, while braking around the 200 marker. If your downshifts are that slow, you're doing something wrong IMO.
1) I always want the option for going back to max power when I need to. I've actually gone back to throttle in a heavy braking zone before in order to avoid a car spinning beside me.
2) It's much easier to rev match one gear at a time than to make a 5000+ RPM rev match from 5th to 2nd gear at the end of the braking zone. Normally, you're also trail braking, so trying to make such a large throttle blip really limits your ability to balance the brakes on the very limit.
3) Despite what folks say, there is PLENTY of time for multiple downshifts. In a Formula Mazda, I was able to go from 5th to 1st in the 10a braking zone a Road Atlanta, with a blip in each gear, while braking around the 200 marker. If your downshifts are that slow, you're doing something wrong IMO.
10-27-2009, 02:36 PM
#26
Perfect Angel
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Patrick Long says to row thru each gear letting the clutch out each time. He was featured in an article specifically about driving Porsches. He even points out using that technique in older 915 trannys.
For a few reasons: As mr. watts says above, the option to go full power and the accidental overrev. Also, the rear end is more stable under braking with the car in gear and clutch out.
Since Patrick is faster than me I thought I'd try it. It does get busy. As an example, Summit Point T1 is a 5th to 2nd brake zone. That's a lot of dancing. At first my brake zone just got real loooooooong
I does go a little quicker with practice. It's isn't second nature yet as I've been a skip shifter since I got my drivers license.
For a few reasons: As mr. watts says above, the option to go full power and the accidental overrev. Also, the rear end is more stable under braking with the car in gear and clutch out.
Since Patrick is faster than me I thought I'd try it. It does get busy. As an example, Summit Point T1 is a 5th to 2nd brake zone. That's a lot of dancing. At first my brake zone just got real loooooooong
I does go a little quicker with practice. It's isn't second nature yet as I've been a skip shifter since I got my drivers license.
10-27-2009, 02:46 PM
#27
Drifting
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For the skip shifters out there:
How successful are you are consistently making a HUGE 3500-5000 RPM blip before your downshift at the end of the braking zone while keeping constant brake pressure?
Are you trail braking into turns? And if so, do you ever have downshifts that need to be completed after turn-in?
How successful are you are consistently making a HUGE 3500-5000 RPM blip before your downshift at the end of the braking zone while keeping constant brake pressure?
Are you trail braking into turns? And if so, do you ever have downshifts that need to be completed after turn-in?
10-27-2009, 03:07 PM
#28
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
