Mark in Baltimore

I'm thinking of getting a fire suppression system for my car and want to clarify a few points. I had hoped buying something would have been as simple as getting one of the SPA systems, but it seems more complicated than that. Here are the soft conclusions that I have reached after doing some research here on Rennlist, some of which may or may not be true. Please enlighten me if I am misunderstanding, for my head is swimming with details:

1) Halon is still the preferred material because of the way that it suppresses the fire. I am confused as to whether I can buy a system with Halon in it or not and am further confused as to whether or not recharging will be exorbitant, if it's even available to me as a consumer.

2) It seems that the AFFF (Aqueous Film Forming Foam) system is a possible alternative but, since it uses a water-based material, will freeze if the car is parked in cold weather. Although my car sits in a garage most of the time, there are times that I work on my other cars and have to park the 993 in the cold for a few days. Taking the bottle out and having to worry about it seems like an unnecessary complication, something I do not need in my life.

Also, since the system is pressurized, it is more likely to corrode some of the components, requiring more frequent factory or authorized dealer safety checks.

3) The ESS system is not pressurized but uses what looks to be a CO2 cartridge riding piggy-back on the fire bottle. Because it's not pressurized, the AFFF material is more stable(?). I think it still suffers from the freezing issue because it's AFFF.

Are there any alternatives to Halon that will work? I hear of Halotron and Ansul CleanGuard aka FE-36 but don't know of anyone selling a system with this stuff. Is it almost as good as Halon but better than AFFF? What are the pros and cons?

Do I want an electric actuation system or a manual pull? Some say that the manual pull is more foolproof, less likely to suffer a broken wire in case of a serious crash and does not require a battery to activate the fire bottle, which makes a manual approach simpler. However, factory Cup cars use an electric button, so maybe the factory knows something that I don't (go figure). Also, an electric system is easier to install.

Finally, other than weight distribution, is there any disadvantage to installing the fire bottle in the rear seat area of my 911? I see that most bottles are installed in the passenger's footwell, but since I occasionally instruct, it might be nice to have some room for students' legs.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

John H

I put a ESS system from Apex Performance in my former GT4S car. It was not difficult at all. It had the manual pull. My garage was unheated so I did have to take the tank out but it was not that big of a deal. The refills are cheap compared to most other stuff we buy for these cars.

I liked installing the system. In my mind, I felt like I accomplished something and was proud of the result.

ApexPerformance

The ESS system is not pressurized so the AFFF solution does not break down overtime like pressurized systems. This also allows for the maximum amount of pressure at the time of actuation so the pressure doesn't break down over time either Some pressurized systems break down the AFFF solution and when the product is disbursed at the nozzle, there's a sudden burst of solution and then it dribbles. The ESS system sends a constant steady pressurized spray.

The AFFF/water solution may freeze when exposed to freezing temperatures for a long period of time. ESS recommends removing the bottle when exposed to freezing temps.

ESS has introduced an electronic version but pricing is currently being finalized. The advantage of an electronic system is if the driver is incapacitated, the system can detect rising temperature and electronically activate. The driver would have the option of pressing a button, pulling the cable or letting the system actuate electronically.

Mark in Baltimore

Thanks, guys! I'm definitely considering the ESS system.

Still, are Halon systems still available?

Is Halotron/gaseous substance a good substitute?

Any issues with mounting it in the back seat area?

MRW

Hi Mark-
Motivated by that tragic accident at Daytona in August, I had Eurosport put a supression system in my car right before Road America. There's a five pound halon bottle on the passenger floor, and three nozzles, one engine compartment, one under my feet, one rear passenger compartment. They highly recommended a manual pull (no worries about batteries, etc.), which is what I have, mounted at eye-level on the left door jamb, where it can be pulled by someone outside the car. Halon sees to be the preferred medium, because it works, and the amount being released into the ozone is insignificant compared to saving your *** in a fire. The whole smash was $995 installed. I asked around a lot for opinions before I bought what I did, and I feel better knowing that it's there. Just my opinion. P.S.- I kept my fire extinguisher too, in case I ever need to go to someone else's aid.

ApexPerformance

Halon is the best fire extinguising agent out there; however, it is no longer being produced. There may be manufactureres out there that still sell Halon and there may be a stockpile of Halon left for recharges but it is no longer being manufacturered. Halon is dangerous to the driver and the vehicle - it can cause asphyxiation and frostbite burns to the skin. It also corrodes engine parts and flashback can occur (when the fire re-ignites).

The ESS AFFF solution cools down a fire and coats the surfaces and prevents escape of any volatile fumes or vapor that can reignite. If it is fired off while you are moving, it doesn't have the tendency to dissipate as the air is transferred in the engine compartment or wherever the fire is. It is water-based so there's no problem with corrosion or clean-up - it washes right off.

Hope this helps.

Mark in Baltimore

Hey, Mike,

I hope you're well. Thanks for the info! What brand of Halon system did you go with?

Mark in Baltimore

Okay, thanks for the info! I understand that it's no longer being produced, but is it still available as an automotive fire safety product?

ApexPerformance

Regarding installation, keep in mind where you put the pull cable or push buttons. Make sure you can reach them when harnessed in the seat. We had a driver recently that had an oil fire, he couldn't reach the pull cable to actuate the system. Luckily, he was OK and not too much damage to the car but something to think about. Also practice getting out of the car with all of your equipment on and close your eyes. If the cockpit fills up with smoke, you won't be able to see anything. Common sense but sometimes simple things can be overlooked.

SundayDriver

I have always stuck with manual pull. In a fire, it is too easy to lose electrical or the wires from the activation button, then you have no fire system.

arrivederci

Other than the location of the pull cable/switch, are there any other tips for installation? This is on my list this winter as well. I also plan to re-mount my existing 2.5lb Halon bottle below the front of my driver's seat as a backup.

I'm also thinking of mounting the new bottle somewhere behind the driver/passenger because the cool suit cooler currently sits on the floor in front of the passenger seat. So any advice for/against that would be helpful.

MRW

Mark-

SafeCraft RS5AAA- http://www.safecraft.com/product_pag...&menu=&Search=

Again, with repect to mounting the pull, mine is on the door jamb just below the windshield header. When I get in the car, the safety pin with its ribbon are right where I need to fasten the window net, so I can't forget to pull it. The guys tie-wrapped the pin to the roll cage, so it hangs down during the race out of the way, and can be immediately reinserted in the paddock. Most importantly, I can reach the pull with either hand, and it's right there for anyone outside the car. Hope this all helps.

DWalker

I do not like the Halon systems myself, at Road Atlanta years ago I watched a 911 burn practically to the ground because the driver popped the fire system while still moving, sucking the Halon out and with zero impact on the fire. This is a two-fold issue- first the halon system itself, second that the driver had never been instructed on how to use the system in the first place, ie- ideally you pull over, STOP the car, GET OUT OF THE CAR, pull fire system if you can reach it safely. If the fire is in the cockpit, you use the fire system to buy yourself a second or two to get out of the car. Sometimes you can push/pull the button on your way out, but the FIRST thought has to be GET OUT OF THE CAR, not try to save the car with the fire system. Also, if you can afford the wieght a handheld extinguisher in a Club car is a great idea, for the cornerworkers to use if needed. Once again, the thing to remember is GET OUT OF THE CAR, not save the car!

Chris M.

I installed this Safecraft system I bought from Lindsey Racing. It uses the Dupont FE-36 extinguishant which is inexpensive to recharge and you don't have to take the bottle in and out of the car in cold weather. I installed it myself (other than the bracket on the cage dash bar, which was fabbed by my cage builder) after borrowing a friend's tube bender and buying a $25 flaring tool at Home Depot. It's white too, which matches my car.

kurt M

Yes there are vast amounts of Halon left. US gov used it in great amounts and at present use rates there is over 100 years stockpiled. You need to check with the venues you might be racing with. Some are going Green and not using Halon any longer.

I have not heard of Halon acting on metals. It is a part of as family of chemicals that are largely inert. Water is not inert to metal. I will have to look into this aspect further.

AFFF systems use water AND something to produce a foam film. This additive is one of a list that ranges from animal proteins to synthetic based chemicals. All AFFF systems leave a residue that will need to be cleaned. Some AFFF charges produce an almost diabolically slippery foam that I guess might interfere with exiting the car.
Something that I do not see getting discussed much. Foam can only suppress a fire when it can make contact with the fire. It does nothing to a choking smoke producing fire that is around a corner, behind you, in a tunnel or anywhere that the foam does not spray or flow. As a gas Halon will disburse and likely will be pulled to the fire by heat generated convection.

My personal choice was Halon. #1 for me was simple systems tend to work when needed. #2 was no freeze issues, I have enough stuff to forget already not having to think about repeatedly installing, removing and correctly reinstating a critical system like fire is a good thing for me.

The simple system. Manual push button system with the safety pin right at the button and easy to see and remove / replace while fully strapped in. The button is on the A pillar inside the cage bar and easy for me or someone outside the car to see and hit. The actuator cable is hardened in a braided stainless guide sheath and the cable and sheath can be deformed and still work when hit. The cable does not pull or push a lever that then has to do something to something that in turn needs to do something else like CO2 cartridge powered type systems. It punches through a foil cap and the Halon comes out. Stone cold simple. The bottle is mounted across the direction of travel and the tubing runs in the center of the car and as protected from damage in a accident as I could come up with.

Trust but verify. The only way to tell if a CO2 cartridge has CO2 in it is to carefully weigh it. A full one and one with a bad cap that is empty look the same. Halon systems all have a gauge and you can feel a large weight delta between full and empty in your hand. There is also no improper home based mixing of a Halon system, it is freeze stable and will work at 10 deg. An AFFF system is out of the car below 32. AFFF additives do not lower the freeze point enough to matter.

Biomechanics of Halon and you. Halon does not need to be in concentrations high enough to smother a fire as some other gasses do. Halon interferes with the chemical process of combustion. It is the **** blocker of fire and is damn good at it. 5% Halon in an otherwise fully combustible atmosphere will suppress combustion. You would need to be in a tightly enclosed chamber and have enough Halon to reduce the O2% way down from 20% in order to have breathing issues. Halon itself is not toxic. Skin freeze issues from liquid Halon discharge is a matter of proper install of the drivers compartment nozzle. Gaseous Halon does not cause skin freeze. I would take a frost bite patch over getting roasted any day

Accidental discharge. I bet more systems get fired by accident that in fires. I don’t want to get a face full of blinding foam at speed if something goes wrong.

Again this is all 100% non expert and only my personal opinion based on what I have gleaned and seen over the years. Opinion.