View Poll Results: How do you feel about Button as WDC?
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How do you feel about Button as WDC?
#31
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LOL@ you..................Rindt had more talent and fighting spirit than Button by a looooooooooong shot. Rindt ALWAYS had **** cars, period, and he still delivered without any crying. Do you think Button would come back like Rindt did after the airborne wing crash at Barcelona ? Not a chance, he ain't cut from the same cloth. Plus Rindt drove EVERYTHING from touring cars to prototypes/F2/ hell even Indy and won at Le Mans.
The Lotus 72 was as dangerous as they come, possibly , the 1970 version, one of the most fragile and getting killed/hurt F1 car in modern F1 history. Jackie Stewart, one of Rindts best friends flat out refused to drive ANY Lotus and especially the 72 for ANY money. Fact, due to being a flying pine box. His opinion was shared by many.
Ultimately, it killed Rindt who had not a chance approaching the Parabolica at 300 km/h while his front left brake shaft broke under braking. The loose guardrails, him not wearing the lower part of the seatbelt which caused submarining and the pathetic slow ambulance response had his faith sealed. Oh, yeah, and Chapman ran immediately like a rabbit out of the Italy., wonder why.............but Ferrari with Ickx tried their hardest to wrestle it away from the dead man but did not prevail and Rindt got his WDC. DESERVED.
Would Button have gotten into the 72 ? Not a chance.
In the end , if he wins, he is going to be like the other one hit wonders who had the best car , were at the right spot at the right time or just lucky :Hunt-Scheckter- Rosberg - Jones - Mansell - KR.
The Lotus 72 was as dangerous as they come, possibly , the 1970 version, one of the most fragile and getting killed/hurt F1 car in modern F1 history. Jackie Stewart, one of Rindts best friends flat out refused to drive ANY Lotus and especially the 72 for ANY money. Fact, due to being a flying pine box. His opinion was shared by many.
Ultimately, it killed Rindt who had not a chance approaching the Parabolica at 300 km/h while his front left brake shaft broke under braking. The loose guardrails, him not wearing the lower part of the seatbelt which caused submarining and the pathetic slow ambulance response had his faith sealed. Oh, yeah, and Chapman ran immediately like a rabbit out of the Italy., wonder why.............but Ferrari with Ickx tried their hardest to wrestle it away from the dead man but did not prevail and Rindt got his WDC. DESERVED.
Would Button have gotten into the 72 ? Not a chance.
In the end , if he wins, he is going to be like the other one hit wonders who had the best car , were at the right spot at the right time or just lucky :Hunt-Scheckter- Rosberg - Jones - Mansell - KR.
#32
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If Mario is going to be the most common point of conversation here, he clued me in to a little something on the Lotus 79 a couple of weeks ago. (We were at his winery for a release day.) The rear brakes (at least the inner half of the caliper) were cast as part of the transaxle housing. So he won more than one of those races with only front brakes. Seemed he had more than one spirited discussion with Chapman over this.
Back to if Button is deserving. In my time, I've followed everyone from Lauda to Hamilton winning the championship. Was Lauda's Ferrari the dominate car in 75? Hunt's McLaren in '76? Lauda's Ferrari in '77? Flash forward to Piquet in Bernie's Brabham with turbo BMW. Etc etc etc. Did Senna have a dog car in which he won despite his equipment? Prost? Lauda resurrected in the TAG McLaren? Etc etc etc all the way to Schumacher's rides this decade.
Back to if Button is deserving. In my time, I've followed everyone from Lauda to Hamilton winning the championship. Was Lauda's Ferrari the dominate car in 75? Hunt's McLaren in '76? Lauda's Ferrari in '77? Flash forward to Piquet in Bernie's Brabham with turbo BMW. Etc etc etc. Did Senna have a dog car in which he won despite his equipment? Prost? Lauda resurrected in the TAG McLaren? Etc etc etc all the way to Schumacher's rides this decade.
Mac did not resurrect Laudas career. He was broke from his airline debacle , had to come back for the $$ and had been inactive for a long time. Ron Dennis hired him for publicity reasons and being supportive of Prost. However, that backfired.................and Prost is ten shades above Barricello in terms of driving ability.
While I agree with you in principle that the best car usually wins , it is the way you win aka you seal the deal convincingly or you have a life and death battle with your teammate. Button has not done that, not by a long shot, he is just being Button.............
#33
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..
#34
RL Community Team
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I agree with most here that Button is not at the very sharpest end of the current driver lineup (i.e. perhaps not quite at the Alonso/Hamilton level), but I reject the hypothesis that he is in cruise mode (IMO). Quite the contrary, I think he has shown many signs of the stress unsettling him. He may not be driving as well in the second half of the season as the first, but I don't think it is because he is cruising...
I agree that it would be nice if he could finish off with some strong drives to make an emphatic statement for his championship.
Although his lead is a little smaller than Hamilton's was at this point of the 2007 season, I think he (Button) has statistically better odds of winning the championship. The only cars that were realistically in contention for wins against Hamilton were the two Ferraris and his teammate. Thus, the likelyhood of his two key rivals (Kimi and Fernando) being on the podium in those last two races was pretty high.
In Button's case, there are a number of non-championship contending drivers (notable Kimi and Lewis) who are genuine contenders to win. Thus, the corresponding likelyhood of Barrichello or Vettel being on the podium is less, as there is just a bigger crowd fighting for it. Add in Vettel's engine issue, and I think Button has a pretty solid looking lead. Again, I concur with most everyone that I'd rather see him win it from the front instead of from fifth or sixth...
But the world championship is not a contest to decide the most talented driver, it is awarded to the car and driver who have amassed the most points together. Button has gained every point in a sportsmanlike and fair manner, so I can't see how it can be lableled unworthy. Even that diffuser issue is moot. Ross Brawn gave ample notice well before the season of the loophole. It was generally dismissed and he exploited the advantage. Think of how many times Porsche has done similar in their history. It is part of the competition.
Hunt drove for Hesketh up to the end of '75, but his world championship was won at the wheel of a McLaren M23.
+1 on Rindt... A truly great driver. But of course in that bittersweet summer of 1970 the Lotus 72 was on another planet...
This is Rindt at the Nurburgring in a Lotus 49, my current desktop...
I agree that it would be nice if he could finish off with some strong drives to make an emphatic statement for his championship.
Although his lead is a little smaller than Hamilton's was at this point of the 2007 season, I think he (Button) has statistically better odds of winning the championship. The only cars that were realistically in contention for wins against Hamilton were the two Ferraris and his teammate. Thus, the likelyhood of his two key rivals (Kimi and Fernando) being on the podium in those last two races was pretty high.
In Button's case, there are a number of non-championship contending drivers (notable Kimi and Lewis) who are genuine contenders to win. Thus, the corresponding likelyhood of Barrichello or Vettel being on the podium is less, as there is just a bigger crowd fighting for it. Add in Vettel's engine issue, and I think Button has a pretty solid looking lead. Again, I concur with most everyone that I'd rather see him win it from the front instead of from fifth or sixth...
But the world championship is not a contest to decide the most talented driver, it is awarded to the car and driver who have amassed the most points together. Button has gained every point in a sportsmanlike and fair manner, so I can't see how it can be lableled unworthy. Even that diffuser issue is moot. Ross Brawn gave ample notice well before the season of the loophole. It was generally dismissed and he exploited the advantage. Think of how many times Porsche has done similar in their history. It is part of the competition.
Hunt drove for Hesketh up to the end of '75, but his world championship was won at the wheel of a McLaren M23.
+1 on Rindt... A truly great driver. But of course in that bittersweet summer of 1970 the Lotus 72 was on another planet...
This is Rindt at the Nurburgring in a Lotus 49, my current desktop...
Last edited by 500; 07-29-2014 at 01:17 PM.
#35
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The only reason I raised the Rindt situation was because as was mentioned earlier; points in the beginning of the season count as much as they do at the end. Tragically, Rindt didn't do too well at season's end (excuse the sarcasm). I was a fan of his at the time and won't forget.
Thanks for posting this fabulous photo above, and for good discussion all around.
Thanks for posting this fabulous photo above, and for good discussion all around.
#36
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Be so cool if they go back to big large wide rear wheels with smaller front wheels.
Just looks so much righter. (probably will slow the current crop of F1 cars with understeer issues)
Vettel. Stop driving the snot out of the motahs.
Just looks so much righter. (probably will slow the current crop of F1 cars with understeer issues)
Vettel. Stop driving the snot out of the motahs.
#37
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Anyway, looks like 9 wins in 49 starts for him driving a McLaren.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hunt
('76 was the year I got into F1; I probably remember '76-'79 better than I do '79-'09.)
#38
Burning Brakes
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Guess Lord Hesketh had so much money he could masquerade his car as first an M23, then the not-so-hot M26?
Anyway, looks like 9 wins in 49 starts for him driving a McLaren.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hunt
('76 was the year I got into F1; I probably remember '76-'79 better than I do '79-'09.)
Anyway, looks like 9 wins in 49 starts for him driving a McLaren.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hunt
('76 was the year I got into F1; I probably remember '76-'79 better than I do '79-'09.)
#39
Rennlist Member
Vettel is more deserving of the title in my opinion and who I'd like to see win it. He drives in the style of Michael Schumaker. He's a charger. I never get that feeling from Button.