Drewsifer

After I bought my first 944 in '06 and did my first AutoX i thought "I want to do this, but with other cars around me". Ok so maybe that wasn't exactly how it went. But basicaly I've been itching to get into wheel to wheel racing. My dad raced when I was growing up (albiet Formula Fords and Datsuns) and the craze has hit me. Right now though, I don't have an real track experience (aside from AutoX days) nor have a I done an HPDE's. And I'm faced with a choice. When I get back from this deployment I can do one of two things. Buy something to complete my HPDE to get my license and then purchase an already built Spec 944, or buy a really nice play toy (I'm think a 944 Turbo). Any thoughts?

Drew

M758

I think you know where I stand, but here goes anyway.


Back in 1997 I picked up my 88 944 Turbo S street car. It was great fun and wanted more from it. So autocross and track days next on my list. I loved them. However I realized very fast a few things.
1) A stock turbo S is fast car, but not that fast on the track because it is stock. Suspension too soft and it is too heavy. I could make it faster on the track, but then it would hurt the nice balance of performance and driving comfort on the street.
2) The turbo S was a nice street car and worth about 12k at the time. Not a car I wanted bang up a fender in nor suffer all the "track rash" common to well tracked cars in our state. (Track rash is severe rock chips on the front end which happens due mostly dirt/gravel track edges vs grass). I could tell this was holding me back when driving on the track since I was always neverious about damaging the car. Once I did go off and tapped a fence. Lucky for me there was not a scratch on the car, but my nose bra was beat up bit.
3) tracking 944 turbo can get expensive very fast. Power is so easy to come by that when looking for speed on track you WILL look for more hp. This justs increases the operating costs. I had a hard enough time just paying entry fees and could not spend that much on car operation.

So I found a 84 NA in poor condition and dragged it home for $1400 back in late 1999. I then began a process to turn it into a cheap track/autocross car. The idea was minimum weight by ditching EVERYTHING I did not need to operate the car. Low weight = speed and removing junk is cheap. Plus less stuff to break. Well my first even in the car was a in October 2000 at a autocross. The car ran stripped, but with all stock parts except for 225/50 R15 Kumho victoracers. Depsite a few teething issues all I can say is WOW. The car was soo reponsive it was a shock. My Turbo S felt heavy and slow. The next time out at the track I ran with ease a lap time equal to my best in my Turbo S. After that my Turbo S was street only and has only seen the track 2-3 times since 2001. The 944 once I put a good suspension on it and learned to drive is 7 seconds a lap faster.

Now I may have gotten bored with just doing DE in this car, but I started racing it in 2002 and being in a a spec class is great. Now fear of some lastest hot part to make me slow and plenty of things to keep the budget reasonable. Also some very strong racing competition that means every weekend is a challenge.

I still have my Turbo S, but it is only for casual weekend drives. My 944 spec car sees all the hard duty and given my years of driving it I don't think I could DE my 944 Turbo for less than a I race my 944 spec car. Plus DE gets old after a while, but racing is aways interesting.

2BWise

If your serious buy an already built car. Considering the prices on 944 spec cars at the moment it is practically a steal. Start out with DE's and get comfortable being on track and learn the basics. Then when you get bored with DE move on up and get your license. Then you'll already have the car and should know it pretty well. That leaves only the racing to worry about.

aeshultz

What he said /\
Really, really fun way to do it is to buy an already built car (very affordable right now), use it for DEs to get up to speed and work on the car. Then, when you're ready, just sign up for a Comp school with whichever group you want to run with and have at it.

Potomac-Greg

Use this and other forums a lot. It will save you a ton. For example, if you want to DE in a Spec/Cup car, it's going to need a passenger seat and harness setup (something you would not want when racing). So add another $1K unless you get really lucky on the used market.

Good luck!

PS: Maybe do a few DEs before you make the race car jump. You can bring any safe, stable car to a DE and get a sense of how you like being on track. If you jump directly to a race car, that includes investing in a trailer and if needed, a tow vehicle. Just a thought.

M758

My spec car has a pass seat and harness setup. I have it since I need alittle extra to make weight so why not something useful. As for harness.. that is easy. Just get a race expired one in good shape. My current pass harness is an "racing" expired one, yet is still ok for DE. I got aluminum seat used for $50. Point is buy a complete car does always mean 1k for pass seat. Heck any car you get you may not like the DRIVERS seat as they can be very personal. If so make that a pass seat and buy seat that fits you.

Any track car you get will require some customizations to fit your needs.

Drewsifer

What I'm hearing just verifies what I was thinking. As much as I would like a real fun weekend toy, I want to race more. I tried to do some DE's before, but my 944 at the time was sadly not up to the job. So when I get back, I think I'll hunt down a good 944 (maybe an S2 hmm?) and start hitting those DE's. Thanks for all the advice guys!

aeshultz

S2 - Yum.
Just remember that an S2 will put you into SP-3 or PCA E/F class (?). Both very fast company. But if you're slow in class, at least you can race with some 944Spec cars (evil grin).

911racer

As far as the speed and Hp of the car.

I have a completely prepared 911 GT race car. 1987 vintage. Pretty much best of everything with a race 3.6L in it. Very fast and 1.85 G's in the corners.

This year I built an 86 NA 944 to compete with my friends in the 944Cup series (slightly more mods allowed over spec, but limited to the stock engine internals)

I have just as much fun running the car with half the Hp. The racing is just as good and in some respects better. I would not try and go for a higher Hp car just to be with a faster group. The costs go up like crazy and the fun is about the same.

Drewsifer

Oh the S2 wouldnt be for racing (just anyways) that'd be the fun car. When I get into Spec I'm going to start in the slowest class. I want to be able to full enjoy the experience, not be terrified out of my mind!

Drew

911racer

My first 911 race car started out with a NA 2.2L motor and 245 tires in the back. Now I run a 3.6L with 335's. About 4 incremental steps in between. (if you can call a 2.1L turbo motor pumping 345 to the ground as an incremetal step)

Ed

Potomac-Greg

S2 is a great car, but much harder to find, and pricier when you find them. 944/924 n/as are a plentiful and cheap, 951s are out there in good numbers but it's hard to find a good one, and S2s are rarest. At least that's my experience.

race911

Sounds like you're young and relatively fearless. Look back at your dad's experiences with formula cars. Plenty of affordable Formula Fords out there. Even low end sports racers. No production based car comes close.

Drewsifer

Not as young as you might think. I'm very eager, but it's tempered with knowledge. I know I'm not going to jump right into racing. I know that there is a process which I'm willing to devote my time, efforts, and money too. Some day I wouldn't mind racing a Formula series (Like Formula Ford). But for now I'm more interested in a Production based series. I haven't looked at costs compared to the to, but my father suggested a production based series will be cheaper, and better learning tool.

Drew

Drewsifer

I just wanna make a correction. My dad used to race Spec Racer (before they changed to Ford engines) and then a Formula 440. Had the right words in the wrong order!