Blondurant

Would like club racer's thoughts on the following:

I bought a Spec Boxster with a roll cage to club race with PCA. Right after I got it, two different Porsche techs looked at the cage and had immediate concerns. It was their opinion the cage was of very poor quality, had questionable welds, and would not withstand a rollover or side impact. One of the techs drove the car and the cage shook pretty hard. The cage had to be totally replaced. There was no way I was going to get on the track with that cage. We're strapped in upright in a harness & a Hans so if a cage collapes, the driver would not survive.

It's my opinion that not just anyone with a welding machine should be slapping this things together. We're not professional drivers & many of us may not be able to spot a bad cage. This is not a risk we should take. I think people building cages should be certified in some way. Not sure what the process of that would be but someone much smarter than I could come up with something.

What are your thoughts? I posted this same tread on the Spec Boxster forum but wanted to also present it to a bigger audience.

M758

Well this why you do a few things.

1) never weld a cage in yourself unless you are damn good welder. A cage is only as strong as it weakest links which are the welds.

2) check out the "references" of your cage guy. Specificly look for road racing cages and other work he has done. If you can't see that or that looks bad don't use them.

3) Also consder that just because some guy can weld it it does not mean he can design work crap. There are plenty of cages built with sweet welds, but total missed the it with respect to design.


Now as for safety this is why cages get inspected before cars get log books. When I had my cage work done I took it to a guy who had a good repuation in road racing. I saw other work he did and talked other drivers. Report I got was great work, but pricey. So that was my man. I was also very specific with what I wanted done in terms of design. Being an engineer helps, but if you are not look for pictures of cages to use as examples. A good cage build will listen you want want and will be happy to be give the rules of the org he is building for just to make sure everything is fine.

APKhaos

There are many examples of truly bad cage design and fabrication, so you are definitely not the first to have this problem. Some fail on design [more material /= more strength], some on welding and related fabrication [fit & gap, weld penetration etc], some on both. As Joe said, if you are buying a prepared race car which purports to confrm to a specific rule set, it should have a current logbook or a valid tech inspection by the apporpriate santioning body or at least an inspection by someone who know the spec and it qualified to tell you if the car will or will not pass tech. Better be someone you trust implicitly.

None of this helps after the fact, of course. Sorry to hear you were sold a rough job. It might be worth having a very careful look all over the car for rough/sketchy fab and assembly work.

Its your call, but maybe get a written tech inspection that details the cage and any other problems that are found, and then have a very pointed discussion with the seller about misrepresentation. Take you ugliest boys along for backup.

TRT41

Why were't the cage issues noticed and worked out prior to purchase? One way to mitigate poor quality is to take your $$$ elsewhere or have the seller correct the problem, just saying...

SundayDriver

Did the car have a logbook? If so, then that sanctioning body would have inspected the cage (assuming no fraud) and should have caught that. If you buy a race car without a logbook, then all bets are off. We all rely on the tech folks in our various series to properly inspect a race car and only issue a logbook if it is good to go. Also, in SCCA, when a car is in crash, then damage is usually noted in the logbook and the car cannot be raced until the repairs are signed off - again, in the logbook.

shiners780

The cage "shook"?! Was it attached to the chassis with plastic zip ties?

Greg Smith

Do you have any pics of the first cage?

kurt M

Some groups such as NHRA in many classes require the use of a Cert holding weldor to do the work.

I have seen some cages that were built by shops that had little though used during. Nice welds and fitup, poor layout.

Veloce Raptor

I think this Smart car could have used a better cage...





Professional Racing and Driving Coach

Circuit Motorsports

Unless someone did a conversion those look like 5 bolt wheels and the Smart is a 3 bolt.

SundayDriver

It has a great cage. Very tall and very short - see how it did the job.

Veloce Raptor

"Just enough room for a tall skinny latte..."

Joe, you're right, I didn't know they were 3 lug hubs. Must be a conversion like this one.





Professional Racing and Driving Coach

Circuit Motorsports

How come I knew you were gonna post that picture.

Blondurant

First.... MR. RAPTOR! Thanks for hosing up my thread. I would like your serious opinion on the matter please. You're the most intelligent racer out there so I know it's going to be a very valuable one...

The previous owner of the car flat out lied about the condition of the car. I bought it blind due to geographical distance but spent hours on the phone with him going over the car. I talked to his mechanic and other people that "knew the car". It wasn't just the roll cage, the head gasket was blown when I got it as well so I have to rebuild the engine. I've tried to have that very pointed discussion with him but he refuses to talk and will not return my barrage of calls and emails. It's in my attorney's hands now.

See above - bought it sight unseen. I talked to quite a few fellow racers because I was skeptical of doing this. Most said its very common to buy race cars before seeing them and have them transported in. I'll never do it again. The Spec Boxster club racers are a tight knit group for the most part. I'm a rookie in the series but I never dreamed someone would do this to a fellow racer.

It had a POC logbook - the previous owner kept it. I've already spoken with someone with POC. They know there's a problem with at least one guy out there building bad cages.

You can reach in, grab the bar and shake it. I was sick to my stomach.

Will post. Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Keep them coming!

Veloce Raptor

You flatter me!

I cannot fathom why a full welded cage would shake....unless it truly included no effective lateral bracing. Which would be bad.

IMO, irrespective of the legal angle, pay Todd to build a proper cage. Sorry you are getting hosed with this car.





Professional Racing and Driving Coach