TrackdayRSA.

I have recently purchased a 95 993 for daily driving and track events. My intention when buying the 993 was to sell my 1990 964 and to focus on the new car. Now I am having second thoughts- with the prices on 964s quite soft, I am really considering keeping the 964 and developing it into a dedicated track car. My question to all of you who race is this: can you give me a basic outline (I realize it is all about $$ and how far you want to take it) of what you would consider a reasonable budget to upgrade a basically stock car into a decent track car (strictly for fun, not to compete).

Thanks in advance for your input.

Larry Herman

To turn the 964 car into a reliable and adequate track car, probably $10k ($5k for safety and $5K for brake & suspension upgrades). To make it a good & fast track car, triple it.

Brian P

I'd be surprised if the cost to make a "to compete" race car was significantly more than a "strictly for fun" track car.

Gary R.

Agree completely.

IcemanG17

This sums it up nicely.....

Safety #1 (cage-seats-harness-fire-etc)
closely followed by
Brakes-Suspension....

The last thing (but also the most fun) is adding HP....

Bill Verburg

It's an interesting problem.

for either the 964 or 993 the cage or rollbar and seats/harnesses will be the same cost, as will removal of the sunroof if you go that far. I'd estimate $3000 min going up quickly for a full cage and sun roofectomy

brakes on a 993 are pretty good stock, 993RS or tt upgrade will be ~$2700, it's much harder to get big brakes on a 964, you will have to do the m/c in addition to the calipers, rotors and pads, est $3500 and you still won't have what the 993 can.

front suspension will be tied up w/ brakes, more so on the 964. Both will want the 993RS wheel carriers, you're going to put better struts anyway so purchase 993 struts for the 964 to use the 993RS wheel carriers, calipers and rotors(they are cheaper than the 964RS stuff and the pads are bigger too) at the low end JIC or Bilstein is pretty good for struts Moton at the high end,

low end for 993RS wheel carriers, bearings ,tie rods, 993 struts, springs, monoballs, camber plate, harder bushes bigger swaybar(993RS at a min) ~$5000

In the back is where the 964 will be much cheaper to mod, here the harder bushes are all you really need I'm not real conversant w/ these 964 parts ~$800 including mono ***** shock tops(cheaper w/ JIC as the monoballs are std)but for a 993 there are a lot of control arms and bushes to replace for a 993 est ~$3000 inc. the shocks to match the front add another $450 for solid carrige mounts

both can run 8 &10 x18 w/ correspoding tires 993 does so more comfortably because there is more room for tires.

for a trans, stock w/ a good GT or PMS lsd will do, ~$3000, but the best option is a Porsche Motorsports G50/32, /31 or /30 they all work in either 964 or 993
est ~$13000

So ~$15k at the low end & ~$30k at the high end(of course there is no limit here)

Brian P

Really? I thought the cost was due more to people doing this piecemeal and making mistakes and doing it over again. I think if you knew ahead of time that you wanted to go racing, it shouldn't cost much more.

A good example is suspension. Someone gets something that is a track suspension that is still useable for the street. Then they decide to scrap that and get a real race suspension. This basically doubles the cost whereas if they planned ahead of time, it could have been done relatively cheaply.

jscott82

Here is the "napkin" I used to get started... Needless to say the old adage take your best estimate and double (or triple) is pretty accurate.... these numbers are my first estimate...
Whatever you do, Make a plan and stick to it (as best you can )... If you think you might race in the future, go ahead and pick a series/class. Try not to make any mods that would exclude you from it...
I was looking at PCA stock class and tried to compare stock with prepared.

Best of luck with your endeavor....
Jeff

btw: This is for 993, 964 should be the same...

Bill Verburg

easiest is to highlight and copy the area of the ss
paste into a graphic(Adobe, Paint shop etc.)
save as .gif to preserve clarity
post the .gif

Bill Verburg

That's also true lots of good(expensive) mods are not legal for stock classes

RS wheel carriers, BBK are not gonna be used in stock classs and will save a bunch, but the car wil be that much less capable.

trackjunky

I would just call L. Herman and ask him for his build sheet. Ask no questions and just copy it. I went for a ride in his old car today and I am still shaking my head.

Larry, I have to think that you either hit your head or were wayyyyyy high when you decided to sell that car. THat thing is amazing!

I am definately protesting that car when I get in H stock.

jscott82

Thank... Edited my origonal post to include the image.....

any idea how to make it display inline, rather than as a link?

Larry Herman

Thanks Bill. Selling it was not something that I did capriciously. I will forever miss that car. It was awesome.

race911

Well, as usual I'm the contrarian. I recently posted over on the 964 forum re: RSA #2. Bottom line is I bought a 130K 100% stock RSA to replace the one I had wrecked. It's never turned into anything but a backup to the backup to the backup track car, but it's logged about 5K hard track miles in the past 5 years. Totaly outlay is $18K for the car (+ sales tax), and some consumables. Leftover suspension, etc. is all that's on it.

Sure, pile on the safety gear. But thinking you "need" to spend all this money on modifications to just get out there on the track.......get serious. On RA-1's, I can run a 2:07 Thunderhill (full track), 1:55 Sears, 1:45 Laguna pace comfortably. I instructed at a BMWCCA race school at Sears in March, went out at the back and passed 25 cars in a 20 minute session. These cars are VERY capable in near-stock form.

race911

Link from one of the guys on our local list:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/200...on_wet_dr.html