HD Video Cameras - NOT Aiptek
04-02-2009, 02:38 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
HD Video Cameras - NOT Aiptek
OK, the Aiptek cameras have been done to death here. No question that they really opened up the options on low-priced solid state HD video. I've got two of them, so that's all covered.
I'm interested in hearing from anyone who is using a non-Aiptek HD camera for in-car use. I've seen quite a bit of HD video from the earlier generation of the Canon and the Panasonic that were spectacular - no sign of the rolling shutter problem. These were tape-based cameras, but the later models including the Canon HF10, the Panasonic HDC-SD9, the Sony HDR-SR12 and others are all SD card storage, and it would be good to know how they perform in an in-car application.
BTW, the Canon HF10 can be had for $329, which suggests that the price gap between the Aiptek and these higher end cameras is closing fast!!
I'm interested in hearing from anyone who is using a non-Aiptek HD camera for in-car use. I've seen quite a bit of HD video from the earlier generation of the Canon and the Panasonic that were spectacular - no sign of the rolling shutter problem. These were tape-based cameras, but the later models including the Canon HF10, the Panasonic HDC-SD9, the Sony HDR-SR12 and others are all SD card storage, and it would be good to know how they perform in an in-car application.
BTW, the Canon HF10 can be had for $329, which suggests that the price gap between the Aiptek and these higher end cameras is closing fast!!
04-02-2009, 10:23 PM
#3
Race Director
I used a Canon HV10. It is a CCD camera and had the shakes when mounted in the car. The cheapo HD Aiptech I bought at Walmart worked better in the car.
04-02-2009, 11:22 PM
#4
Addict
Rennlist Member
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Tony, sure you know that Randy and Co in San Diego are working on an HD version of the ChaseCam system. I've been bugging Randy to consider a lowly club racer (me) as a beta tester! No word yet, but at least I can be persistent! 
04-03-2009, 12:32 AM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
Chris,
Here's one outlet: http://www.ontimedigital.com/product...FQrAGgodzHi7vA
Never bought from them, but it shows where the prices are headed.
Toby,
That talk has been going for at least two years. I have no knowledge of where they are with that project, but clearly the biggest challenge is the HD camera aspect. While there are tons of cheap 480/560 line sensors out there, which means lots of cheap bullet cams, the HD sensors have yet to become widely available. It will happen, but who knows when?
Besides, lets assume than an HD ChaseCam model will be more expensive than the current model. A $300-$400 HD camera from a name vendor that records to SD card is a very attractive alternative, right?
Here's one outlet: http://www.ontimedigital.com/product...FQrAGgodzHi7vA
Never bought from them, but it shows where the prices are headed.
Toby,
That talk has been going for at least two years. I have no knowledge of where they are with that project, but clearly the biggest challenge is the HD camera aspect. While there are tons of cheap 480/560 line sensors out there, which means lots of cheap bullet cams, the HD sensors have yet to become widely available. It will happen, but who knows when?
Besides, lets assume than an HD ChaseCam model will be more expensive than the current model. A $300-$400 HD camera from a name vendor that records to SD card is a very attractive alternative, right?
04-03-2009, 01:18 AM
#6
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I've been using a Sanyo Xacti HD2. It works great, but isn't super cheap. Mine's a couple years old now, so I'm sure there are newer better cheaper models out now.
I like the fact that this camera records to SD cards, HD, relatively small, and has a remote mic plug. I don't like the fact that I still don't have my Traqmate data incorporated into the video, but I know that could be had, its just a matter of money.
Here's an example of an HD video I shot with it, and here's some other examples of mostly non-HD videos.
I like the fact that this camera records to SD cards, HD, relatively small, and has a remote mic plug. I don't like the fact that I still don't have my Traqmate data incorporated into the video, but I know that could be had, its just a matter of money.
Here's an example of an HD video I shot with it, and here's some other examples of mostly non-HD videos.
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04-03-2009, 10:59 AM
#8
Drifting
Thread Starter
I've been using a Sanyo Xacti HD2. It works great, but isn't super cheap. Mine's a couple years old now, so I'm sure there are newer better cheaper models out now.
I like the fact that this camera records to SD cards, HD, relatively small, and has a remote mic plug. I don't like the fact that I still don't have my Traqmate data incorporated into the video, but I know that could be had, its just a matter of money.
Here's an example of an HD video I shot with it, and here's some other examples of mostly non-HD videos.
I like the fact that this camera records to SD cards, HD, relatively small, and has a remote mic plug. I don't like the fact that I still don't have my Traqmate data incorporated into the video, but I know that could be had, its just a matter of money.
Here's an example of an HD video I shot with it, and here's some other examples of mostly non-HD videos.
FWIW, you can get your Traqmate data onto that video using TrackVision for under $200 . Full HD support, of course.
04-03-2009, 12:18 PM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
Here's an example shot with the Panasonic HDC-SD9 - http://www.vimeo.com/2683524
There have been previous reports of CMOS rolling shutter problems with this model, but clearly there is no sign of that in this example. Video is rock steady, even though there's a little bit of camera movement which typically exacerbates the rolling shutter problem IF the camera is susceptible. Looks like the SD-9 is not! Unfortunately, the SD-9 does not have a remote mic jack.
There have been previous reports of CMOS rolling shutter problems with this model, but clearly there is no sign of that in this example. Video is rock steady, even though there's a little bit of camera movement which typically exacerbates the rolling shutter problem IF the camera is susceptible. Looks like the SD-9 is not! Unfortunately, the SD-9 does not have a remote mic jack.
04-03-2009, 03:15 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Here's an example shot with the Panasonic HDC-SD9 - http://www.vimeo.com/2683524
There have been previous reports of CMOS rolling shutter problems with this model, but clearly there is no sign of that in this example. Video is rock steady, even though there's a little bit of camera movement which typically exacerbates the rolling shutter problem IF the camera is susceptible. Looks like the SD-9 is not! Unfortunately, the SD-9 does not have a remote mic jack.
There have been previous reports of CMOS rolling shutter problems with this model, but clearly there is no sign of that in this example. Video is rock steady, even though there's a little bit of camera movement which typically exacerbates the rolling shutter problem IF the camera is susceptible. Looks like the SD-9 is not! Unfortunately, the SD-9 does not have a remote mic jack.
04-03-2009, 03:44 PM
#11
Drifting
Thread Starter
Its not just Panasonic, its any HD camera that produces AVCHD video format. AVCHD is the current king of HD video formats. The video is extremely high quality, and the audio is Dolby AC3. While this is all good, the files are very large and some less powerful PCs can struggle. AVCHD is becoming more widespread, and is the format used in the current offerings from Canon, Sony Panasonic and JVC.
The ubiquitous Aiptek records in H.264 format [which is also the video compression used in AVCHD, but to explain that will only make your head hurt even more]. The Aiptek produces smaller frames [1280 x 720 vs 1920 x 1088] but at a higher frame rate of 60fps vs 30fps. The Aiptec files are big too.
All this said, we've got a few tricks in TrackVision that handle all of these video formats without killing your PC. While TrackVision is not a video editing suite, it can do things like selectively record clips starting and ending at any point in the source video.
Most of the commercial full house video editing apps can handle AVCHD now, but you'll need a dual core PC with lots of memory and a decent graphics card to use them properly. The current versions of the following all support AVCHD, and are all less than $100:
Adobe Premier Elements
Cyberlink Power Director
Corel VideoStudio
Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum
Pinnacle Studio
Roxio Creator 2009
The ubiquitous Aiptek records in H.264 format [which is also the video compression used in AVCHD, but to explain that will only make your head hurt even more]. The Aiptek produces smaller frames [1280 x 720 vs 1920 x 1088] but at a higher frame rate of 60fps vs 30fps. The Aiptec files are big too.
All this said, we've got a few tricks in TrackVision that handle all of these video formats without killing your PC. While TrackVision is not a video editing suite, it can do things like selectively record clips starting and ending at any point in the source video.
Most of the commercial full house video editing apps can handle AVCHD now, but you'll need a dual core PC with lots of memory and a decent graphics card to use them properly. The current versions of the following all support AVCHD, and are all less than $100:
Adobe Premier Elements
Cyberlink Power Director
Corel VideoStudio
Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum
Pinnacle Studio
Roxio Creator 2009
04-08-2009, 03:06 PM
#12
BTW: I got a Panosonic HDC-SD9 over the off-season and had a chance to use it for the first time this past weekend: http://www.vimeo.com/4056928
Note that even without an external microphone, the Panasonic does an incredible job of cutting out the wind noise and leaves an awesome sounding engine note. This is from a Boxster S with the carpeting still in it! My previous camcorder (a Sony) would just sound like a whole bunch of wind noise and it was aggravating to listen to.
Another nice feature of the Panasonic is that the switch to turn on manual focus is a hard switch, not an electronic one. On my Sony, it would occasionally switch back into auto-focus mode and start focusing on bugs on the windshield. I'd have to remember to check it on every run and I had to go through a ton of menu choices to get to it. The hard switch on the Panasonic is great.
Note that even without an external microphone, the Panasonic does an incredible job of cutting out the wind noise and leaves an awesome sounding engine note. This is from a Boxster S with the carpeting still in it! My previous camcorder (a Sony) would just sound like a whole bunch of wind noise and it was aggravating to listen to.
Another nice feature of the Panasonic is that the switch to turn on manual focus is a hard switch, not an electronic one. On my Sony, it would occasionally switch back into auto-focus mode and start focusing on bugs on the windshield. I'd have to remember to check it on every run and I had to go through a ton of menu choices to get to it. The hard switch on the Panasonic is great.
04-09-2009, 12:04 AM
#13
Race Director
What size computer processor and hard drive would I need to process HD video. I will store the video on an outboard hard drive and also burn it to blu-ray?
thanks!
thanks!
04-09-2009, 01:17 AM
#14
Drifting
Thread Starter
BTW: I got a Panosonic HDC-SD9 over the off-season and had a chance to use it for the first time this past weekend: http://www.vimeo.com/4056928
What size computer processor and hard drive would I need to process HD video. I will store the video on an outboard hard drive and also burn it to blu-ray?
I bought a Dell XPS 1530 laptop with Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T6400 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache) 4Gb fast RAM, 320Gb HDD and 128MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8400M GS with Vista 64 for around $1K late last year. Its pretty impressive for the kind if heavy video processing I do, and works for the track as well. There may be better choices out there, but this model is selling down at $800 or so now. If you buy direct from Dell [you'll pay more] you can upgrade to a BluRay optical drive for $200.
External storage is almost obscenely cheap. 1.5Tb for less than $200!! We just bought a very nicely packaged 2.5Tb free standing Raid 5 array for archival storage for around $600! That's more than most data centers had not long ago.
Last edited by APKhaos; 04-09-2009 at 01:34 AM.
04-09-2009, 09:28 AM
#15
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Just get a new PC Mike. I got a Dell Quad Q9300 (2.5 GHZ) with 6gig ram, 750GB HDD, ATI Radeon HD 2600, and Vista 64 delivered for just over $500. For another $100 I got another HDD and set up a Raid.