Racing strategies and/or racecraft........
03-31-2009, 09:57 PM
#16
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03-31-2009, 10:57 PM
#17
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03-31-2009, 10:59 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
In addition to what VR said, yes planning your pass is a mandatory strategy, BUT, also be ready to pass when the opportunity presents itself. You have to be an "opportunist" as well.
Another thing is make friends at the track and help each other go faster. I see loners who don't want to give anyone any inside info but they are anti-social and usually don't even do too well on track. Then you have guys who talk to each other, share secrets or setups, and together they usually run faster than others.
Also if you can bring friends with you who can give you spotting advice or other engineering/maths calculations to give you any edge you can get.
Teams usually do better than loners.
Another thing is make friends at the track and help each other go faster. I see loners who don't want to give anyone any inside info but they are anti-social and usually don't even do too well on track. Then you have guys who talk to each other, share secrets or setups, and together they usually run faster than others.
Also if you can bring friends with you who can give you spotting advice or other engineering/maths calculations to give you any edge you can get.
Teams usually do better than loners.
03-31-2009, 11:01 PM
#19
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
03-31-2009, 11:06 PM
#20
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03-31-2009, 11:30 PM
#22
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04-01-2009, 12:04 AM
#23
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2 more cents worth....
Passing:
In a low HP car, passing is more than just catching the car in front of you, pressing the loud pedal and accelerating by them and pulling away never to see that car again......
Passing requires planning, timing, situational awareness and patience to make the pass stick.
For instance at Road Atlanta. If you happen to catch a car that has more HP than you but less braking capability and less cornering power, and they are held up for some unknown reason in turn 10A. Do NOT get on their rear bumper as you exit turn 10A, leave about +/- 3 car lengths as you exit turn 10B under full acceleration. They will pull away another +/- 3 car lengths going up the hill but you will gain those 3 car lengths back as you enter the turn in at T12, continue to accelerate at full throttle and hopefully you will make up the other +/-3 car lengths at track out, while you are under full throttle and they are hanging on for dear life waiting to accelerate. You will beat them to turn 1 and then put as much space between you and them as you can from T1 to T7. Hopefully, you will have gained enough time to prevent them from catching you on the back stretch. If not, then do it again and again and again until you make the T12 pass stick.
This is just one example. There is a similar situation at turn 9 at Roebling Road. There are many others too.
Passing is fun when you really have to work at it. Do not get disgusted with a fast car that is slow in the corners. Figure out how to pass them and make it stick. This is the true race craft.
Passing:
In a low HP car, passing is more than just catching the car in front of you, pressing the loud pedal and accelerating by them and pulling away never to see that car again......
Passing requires planning, timing, situational awareness and patience to make the pass stick.
For instance at Road Atlanta. If you happen to catch a car that has more HP than you but less braking capability and less cornering power, and they are held up for some unknown reason in turn 10A. Do NOT get on their rear bumper as you exit turn 10A, leave about +/- 3 car lengths as you exit turn 10B under full acceleration. They will pull away another +/- 3 car lengths going up the hill but you will gain those 3 car lengths back as you enter the turn in at T12, continue to accelerate at full throttle and hopefully you will make up the other +/-3 car lengths at track out, while you are under full throttle and they are hanging on for dear life waiting to accelerate. You will beat them to turn 1 and then put as much space between you and them as you can from T1 to T7. Hopefully, you will have gained enough time to prevent them from catching you on the back stretch. If not, then do it again and again and again until you make the T12 pass stick.
This is just one example. There is a similar situation at turn 9 at Roebling Road. There are many others too.
Passing is fun when you really have to work at it. Do not get disgusted with a fast car that is slow in the corners. Figure out how to pass them and make it stick. This is the true race craft.
04-01-2009, 12:10 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
04-01-2009, 03:04 AM
#26
Always know where the car behind you is located. Is he directly behind you? To the side? In your blind spot? If a car behind you suddenly "disappears" in a braking zone, assume he's to your inside and attempting a pass. If you don't know where he is, do you want to turn-in and risk a collision? If you don't know where he is, then that's your fault and you should be willing to drive offline and give up the corner.
All your movements should be predictable. 99% of passes occur to the inside of a turn. So at trackout, DO NOT dive to the inside to *help* a faster car that is behind you pass on-line. That's not expected. Infact by the time you dive toward the inside, the faster car is probably already beside you.
I'm not a good starter, so I ususally just stay in my lane, go as fast as I can and let the chaos sort itself out. Within 1/2 of a lap, the cars will go single file and then I can start racing. It wasn't until my 4th race that I actually made a pass in the first 1/2 lap.
99% of racing involves driving fast and NOT MAKING MISTAKES. You'll spend several laps trying to close on the car in front of you, then BAM-O, you miss a shift or brake too late and just like that, you've lost 300'. And when you do make a mistake, the guy behind you is probably going to pass you. So if you find your mistake (like braking too late) has pushed you off line, don't rush to get back on-line. Be predictable, stay wide, let yourself be passed (hey you made the first mistake) and then get back in the game.
Play fair...
At Summit Pt, I was behind a guy and he missed a shift exiting T3 (the uphill left). I went left (inside line on exit) and started the pass. Toward the top of the hill, he went to the left to setup the turnin for T4 (Chute). Unfortunately, I was already on his left quarter panel (but not up to his door). So when he moved left that pushed me into the grass. That wasn't right. He made the first mistake so he should be willing to give up a pass. IMHO, he should have stayed in the middle of the track and forced me to pass on the outside of T4.
Be considerate to others:
I drive a 944 Turbo. At my first race, I was dicing with 3 944 NA cars. We were at Mosport and I was behind this group of 3 cars. When we got to the back straight, I motored arround them (with more HP). At the top of the hill, I over slowed and they passed me. It was a classic "faster on straights" (me) vs "faster in corners" (them). The second time we went up the backstraight, same thing, I passed them with more HP. But at the top of the hill I knew they would be faster in the corner, so I stayed a tad wide to let them get arround me. Why? Because they were racing together IN THE SAME CLASS, while I'm in a different class. This goes on for several laps. Finally, I know I'm far enough ahead of them that I drive the correct line and they can't pass me. Afterwards, one of the 944 NA drivers found me and thanked me for my clean driving and for not getting involved in *their* race.
I think the biggest thing I've learned about passing is I'm either "Following" or "Passing". When I first started racing, I'd be closing on a car and pull out to "Make the Pass". Of course, this isn't DE, so I'd find myself running offline 20' behind the front car and I'd never complete the pass. In fact, I'd be out of the draft so the front car might even pull away from me. Now I stay behind the car for as long as possible and only when I KNOW I can complete the pass do I start the pass. Otherwise, I stay online (i.e. Follow) and try to get as close as possible and then make the pass at the next oportunity.
All your movements should be predictable. 99% of passes occur to the inside of a turn. So at trackout, DO NOT dive to the inside to *help* a faster car that is behind you pass on-line. That's not expected. Infact by the time you dive toward the inside, the faster car is probably already beside you.
I'm not a good starter, so I ususally just stay in my lane, go as fast as I can and let the chaos sort itself out. Within 1/2 of a lap, the cars will go single file and then I can start racing. It wasn't until my 4th race that I actually made a pass in the first 1/2 lap.
99% of racing involves driving fast and NOT MAKING MISTAKES. You'll spend several laps trying to close on the car in front of you, then BAM-O, you miss a shift or brake too late and just like that, you've lost 300'. And when you do make a mistake, the guy behind you is probably going to pass you. So if you find your mistake (like braking too late) has pushed you off line, don't rush to get back on-line. Be predictable, stay wide, let yourself be passed (hey you made the first mistake) and then get back in the game.
Play fair...
At Summit Pt, I was behind a guy and he missed a shift exiting T3 (the uphill left). I went left (inside line on exit) and started the pass. Toward the top of the hill, he went to the left to setup the turnin for T4 (Chute). Unfortunately, I was already on his left quarter panel (but not up to his door). So when he moved left that pushed me into the grass. That wasn't right. He made the first mistake so he should be willing to give up a pass. IMHO, he should have stayed in the middle of the track and forced me to pass on the outside of T4.
Be considerate to others:
I drive a 944 Turbo. At my first race, I was dicing with 3 944 NA cars. We were at Mosport and I was behind this group of 3 cars. When we got to the back straight, I motored arround them (with more HP). At the top of the hill, I over slowed and they passed me. It was a classic "faster on straights" (me) vs "faster in corners" (them). The second time we went up the backstraight, same thing, I passed them with more HP. But at the top of the hill I knew they would be faster in the corner, so I stayed a tad wide to let them get arround me. Why? Because they were racing together IN THE SAME CLASS, while I'm in a different class. This goes on for several laps. Finally, I know I'm far enough ahead of them that I drive the correct line and they can't pass me. Afterwards, one of the 944 NA drivers found me and thanked me for my clean driving and for not getting involved in *their* race.
I think the biggest thing I've learned about passing is I'm either "Following" or "Passing". When I first started racing, I'd be closing on a car and pull out to "Make the Pass". Of course, this isn't DE, so I'd find myself running offline 20' behind the front car and I'd never complete the pass. In fact, I'd be out of the draft so the front car might even pull away from me. Now I stay behind the car for as long as possible and only when I KNOW I can complete the pass do I start the pass. Otherwise, I stay online (i.e. Follow) and try to get as close as possible and then make the pass at the next oportunity.
04-01-2009, 03:21 AM
#27
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Hey Paolo, don't listen to VR, clearly he knows nothing based on that long winded answer. Here's the real deal for your first weekend
1) Practicing - don't crash
2) Qualifying - don't crash
3) Starts - don't hit any body, don't get hit, don't crash
4) Beginning, mid-race and end-race pace - see practice and qualfying
5) Passing - see starts
6) Tire usage - yep, you'll use 'em
7) Pit strategy - don't crash, this is the most embarassing place to wreck
In all seriousness, you've received a lot of very good advice here. Remember, first race, you're in a completely unknown environment, take the time to learn what it's like - don't worry about winning, get used to driving in that environment and then go racing. However, don't be overly polite - for instance, lifting or braking to let someone by is more likley going to end up in you being rear-ended because it's not expected in a race. Be smooth, relaxed and aware and it will be fun.
1) Practicing - don't crash
2) Qualifying - don't crash
3) Starts - don't hit any body, don't get hit, don't crash
4) Beginning, mid-race and end-race pace - see practice and qualfying
5) Passing - see starts
6) Tire usage - yep, you'll use 'em
7) Pit strategy - don't crash, this is the most embarassing place to wreck
In all seriousness, you've received a lot of very good advice here. Remember, first race, you're in a completely unknown environment, take the time to learn what it's like - don't worry about winning, get used to driving in that environment and then go racing. However, don't be overly polite - for instance, lifting or braking to let someone by is more likley going to end up in you being rear-ended because it's not expected in a race. Be smooth, relaxed and aware and it will be fun.
04-01-2009, 07:44 AM
#28
Drifting
04-01-2009, 08:11 AM
#29
hi!
larry and vr have hit on the main points, so i'll chime in on a few things i like to do:
- i always like to get to the false grid early; i hate to feel 'rushed' before a race! i make sure that my car is fueled up, that all my gear is in the car ready to be donned, that the tire pressures are where i want them, the vid camera is in and ready to turn on, and that everything is in readiness for the race. typically i'll go up at first call, park in my assigned spot, and then do the following -- i like to sit quietly and sort of 'meditate' a bit. i close my eyes and think about the track; i think about what position i am starting in (inside or outside? front row, or farther back?). i will have a qualifying sheet with me, so that i can know exactly which cars are in front and behind, and what classes they are in (are they 'faster' cars, or 'slower' cars?). is this race going to be a rolling start, or standing start? i visualize coming off the last turn, lined up two-by-two, and looking up at the starter. this kind of exercise always gets me 'in the groove' and ready to go, and pre-programs my brain with a bunch of different responses for when the start of the race occurs. (i am typically a 'good' starter; i rarely lose a position, and more usually pick up several during the start).
in my opinion, starting is one of those things that takes ALOT of experience to do well; it was years before i really got halfway decent at it; you are basically trying to take off, and drive very hard on cold tires going down into the first turn with 6+ cars swirling around you, jockeying for position. you need to judge your absolute latest braking point down to the inch, if possible, all the while staying on the track, on the line you have picked (which is most probably not 'the line' for the turn) and avoiding all the other guys, some of whom will 'blow it' and go off.
- next, you need to learn to 'settle down' quickly and get into a rhythm; you don't have the luxury of 2 or 3 laps to do this; you need to be there RIGHT NOW. i've got this down pretty well; i'm 'on it' and at my race pace pretty much from the get-go. this really lets you start to gap-out on the guys who can't settle in fast and go....
- passing is all about timing, and vision, and being comfortable enough to put your car almost anywhere on the track. and, here is a BIG item -- you must be aggressive, not timid, when you pass (and i don't mean that in a 'bad' way; i don't mean aggressive in a 'lets smash this guy off the track' way; i mean aggressive in a 'i can make this pass and i am doing it right here right now' way). you need to know exactly what your car can and can't do, at any given time, and on any part of the track. and you need to leave enough room for the other driver, as you heard time and again in your comp school. way back when i started racing, i'd typically try for a pass and 'chicken out'; kinda a 'half hearted' attempt; well, the other driver could sense this (especially if he was seasoned), almost like he could smell blood in the air! it meant that lap after lap, i'd be stuck behind the guy, and he would feel that he could dominate each turn... this took me a long time to master, being able to really know what i could do in a corner, when attempting a pass; this is definitely one of those 'you need to put in alot of races' to get it down.
- making your car 'wide' and difficult to pass. this is a skill all unto itself; the groups i race with, we have a 'one move entering each turn' rule; you can pick your entrance to any turn you are approaching; you can make 'one move'; (no zig zag blocking, etc). i am really a master at 'being wide' and i am difficult to pass! this again is a skill that takes lots of race hours to attain, but is a very important one.
- managing tires and brakes is BIG. you need to be able to go 'all out' those last few laps in a 40 minute sprint race; don't burn your car down in the first 20 mins! this means making decisions early on that may feel wrong (letting the guy in front of you go, even if you think you could 'flog' your car and stay with him).
- ALWAYS have a camera running in your car! you can analyze your driving afterward, and work on your weaknesses (this is very helpful when trying to learn managing traffic). also very very important if you get into an incident, or are called up to talk to an official; you will then have evidence to support your part of the story.
those are just a few of the things that came to mind; there is so much more! your best bet is to try to get as many race hours under your belt as possible; analyze your experiences, every time. and learn from them!
good luck and have fun (and stay safe!)
todd
ReidSpeed
larry and vr have hit on the main points, so i'll chime in on a few things i like to do:
- i always like to get to the false grid early; i hate to feel 'rushed' before a race! i make sure that my car is fueled up, that all my gear is in the car ready to be donned, that the tire pressures are where i want them, the vid camera is in and ready to turn on, and that everything is in readiness for the race. typically i'll go up at first call, park in my assigned spot, and then do the following -- i like to sit quietly and sort of 'meditate' a bit. i close my eyes and think about the track; i think about what position i am starting in (inside or outside? front row, or farther back?). i will have a qualifying sheet with me, so that i can know exactly which cars are in front and behind, and what classes they are in (are they 'faster' cars, or 'slower' cars?). is this race going to be a rolling start, or standing start? i visualize coming off the last turn, lined up two-by-two, and looking up at the starter. this kind of exercise always gets me 'in the groove' and ready to go, and pre-programs my brain with a bunch of different responses for when the start of the race occurs. (i am typically a 'good' starter; i rarely lose a position, and more usually pick up several during the start).
in my opinion, starting is one of those things that takes ALOT of experience to do well; it was years before i really got halfway decent at it; you are basically trying to take off, and drive very hard on cold tires going down into the first turn with 6+ cars swirling around you, jockeying for position. you need to judge your absolute latest braking point down to the inch, if possible, all the while staying on the track, on the line you have picked (which is most probably not 'the line' for the turn) and avoiding all the other guys, some of whom will 'blow it' and go off.
- next, you need to learn to 'settle down' quickly and get into a rhythm; you don't have the luxury of 2 or 3 laps to do this; you need to be there RIGHT NOW. i've got this down pretty well; i'm 'on it' and at my race pace pretty much from the get-go. this really lets you start to gap-out on the guys who can't settle in fast and go....
- passing is all about timing, and vision, and being comfortable enough to put your car almost anywhere on the track. and, here is a BIG item -- you must be aggressive, not timid, when you pass (and i don't mean that in a 'bad' way; i don't mean aggressive in a 'lets smash this guy off the track' way; i mean aggressive in a 'i can make this pass and i am doing it right here right now' way). you need to know exactly what your car can and can't do, at any given time, and on any part of the track. and you need to leave enough room for the other driver, as you heard time and again in your comp school. way back when i started racing, i'd typically try for a pass and 'chicken out'; kinda a 'half hearted' attempt; well, the other driver could sense this (especially if he was seasoned), almost like he could smell blood in the air! it meant that lap after lap, i'd be stuck behind the guy, and he would feel that he could dominate each turn... this took me a long time to master, being able to really know what i could do in a corner, when attempting a pass; this is definitely one of those 'you need to put in alot of races' to get it down.
- making your car 'wide' and difficult to pass. this is a skill all unto itself; the groups i race with, we have a 'one move entering each turn' rule; you can pick your entrance to any turn you are approaching; you can make 'one move'; (no zig zag blocking, etc). i am really a master at 'being wide' and i am difficult to pass! this again is a skill that takes lots of race hours to attain, but is a very important one.
- managing tires and brakes is BIG. you need to be able to go 'all out' those last few laps in a 40 minute sprint race; don't burn your car down in the first 20 mins! this means making decisions early on that may feel wrong (letting the guy in front of you go, even if you think you could 'flog' your car and stay with him).
- ALWAYS have a camera running in your car! you can analyze your driving afterward, and work on your weaknesses (this is very helpful when trying to learn managing traffic). also very very important if you get into an incident, or are called up to talk to an official; you will then have evidence to support your part of the story.
those are just a few of the things that came to mind; there is so much more! your best bet is to try to get as many race hours under your belt as possible; analyze your experiences, every time. and learn from them!
good luck and have fun (and stay safe!)
todd
ReidSpeed
04-01-2009, 09:40 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
One other thing, Paolo. Take off your race gear as soon as you get out of the car. Don't put it on again until you are ready to get back in the car. It is part of your "game face" and should help you get prepared mentally to do battle. Plus, guys who wear Nomex in the paddock all day long look like dorks (except in very cold weather, when it is useful).
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