What the hell are you talking about "not measureable"? You made my point.

Look at my signature (cars). Ever wonder why I dumped the 944? $3k for a suspension build? If you're going racing you won't even be close to the front for that price. Charlie Arms are $1500/set. Wait until your rear hatch delaminates (pucker). Clutch, better have dumped the original. 968, get your Pinion Bearing budget ready, that's if you don't hole the transaxle. See, it works for all models.

If someone else already addressed the #2 bearing issue it just means that he ate the original cost. It doesn't mean it cost less, it just cost YOU less. Somebody paid the price.

This is not meant to be an us vs them discussion. 944's are FANTASTIC cars. They are one of the best handling cars I've every driven. You just need to be honest here. Racing is expense and a giant waste of money. The cost as a percentage of the vehicles price is probably the same for a 944 as it is for a 996. The 996 just starts out at a higher price point.

When you're done racing, it will be tough to sell that car with all the Spec this and Spec that's coming into play. Just build it and have fun, but realize that either way you are dumping way more money into a car that it will utimately be worth.

This is how you make a small fortune in racing. First start with a big one. Can we still be friends ?

Out!

 

Of course we can still be friends...

But you are looking at this by what is available. I still don't know why you guys simply 'accept' things for they are instead of asking 'why'.

Charlie arms. Please...Probably the most overrated, overpriced component on these cars. Explain to me why a simple suspension like the 944's is so damn expensive. I am presently working with a race component manufacturer in the Philly Area. We are working on a design for the lower control arm that will be more resilient and less expensive (see about $600-700 for the set). I am of the mindset that if I don't like something, I'll figure out a better / cheaper alternative.

When I sold my 996, the prices were still in the mid to upper 30's. Even then, blowing up a motor made little sense. The cost of the motor (without motorsport upgrades) is $9-10K (if you DIY). Add track goodness to them, forget it.

My point is not the fact that racing is not expensive. OF COURSE IT IS. It is a money, sucking habit that fuels our need to go fast.

That said, I would not give it up for the world.

Your last sentence sums up my entire reason for doing this. My goal is cheap(er) fun. My solution is the S2. And, I can't wait to drop a 968 motor in her.

C.

 

ToddPhilly, where are you located? are you in RTR?

 

Chad, you say that but I see 996's at every DE and Club Race I have participated in or watched and I have never witnessed a 996 "ka-blamo" at the track.

I'm not saying it's never happened, but "it's simply a matter of time" seems to massively overstate this outcome.

 

Hey Steve,

Yes, I ran with RTR the last 2 years. I was driving the red BMW 335. I sold that car back in January. I was originally planning on buying an 06 Cayman S, and I thought I should investigate an older 911 before I commit to any purchases. With the economy in the pooper, these 996's are running in the low $20k mark vs mid $30k mark for the cayman s. I just don't want to buy the 996 and end up giving the 'saved' $15k straight to dougherty's for a new motor in the 1st year!

 

Also, any particular advantage (other than displacement) between the 3.4 and the 3.6 motors? Reliability different between the two?

 

You're not pushing hard enough to make it blow up!

Spinning reduces lateral g loads.

 

So does mine.

I know folks who have blown their engine in a 996. I've also seen an E36 M3 blow on the front straight at TWS. A good friend had to rebuild his 964 engine, and I know of another person who grenaded a Cayman S. We put our engines through a lot of stress, and the risk of them failing is real.

 

Do some research on the Cayman Club and Spec Boxster sites as well. All of the M96 and M97 variants can potentially fail due to oiling issues when put into extreme environments. Kinda similar to the 944 bearing problem.

There are solutions... extra oil scavenge pump as Chad mentioned and for the belt/suspenders types a tired and true Accusump wouldn't hurt.

See Jake Raby's LN Engeering site for some real world engineering fixes.

-Paul

 

I blew the original motor in my 2001 996 at Road Atlanta last summer (40k w/ 4k track miles). Not exactly sure what popped (not worth the price to take apart the engine) but there was shrapnel from the intake through the exhaust. We replaced it with a 3.6L X51 ($12k + $3k labor), hopefully a more robust engine. If I was buying a 996 again, I'd opt for a 2002+ to get the 3.6L engine.

 

Todd, will cost you a lot more than $15k if you go to Dougherty's!

 

Yeah, that's what I'm starting to think. The 3.6 sounds like a more reliable motor...especially for track use.

 

I purchased my 2004 3.6 Koni car with "5-7 track hours" on it. I did about 20 test minutes at VIR to try to get used to the car and work the bugs out. Then took it to Sebring for the club race and in the 3rd lap of the race something inside broke. I agree its not worth opening up, not yet anyway. Bought a Porsche remaned motor and in less then a week it ready to go again. Sometimes they last sometimes they dont!!! Hopefully this one last a little longer anyway

 

Sitting back to watch as the owners of "popped" 996's come out of the woodwork.

C.

 

Personally, I've blown up more 944 engines than 996 engines on the track... But my 944 has seen a lot more track time. Over the last decade and a half (since before the 996 was born), I've seen a lot of 944 engines blow up. Some stock and some pumping out 500 HP.