New ZR1 Time: 7:22.4
10-28-2008 | 08:31 PM
#1
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New ZR1 Time: 7:22.4
I thought I'd post this here as it is track related. Here's the source:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/28/c...off-ring-time/
Apparently Magnussen piloted the car this time. Amazing how a true professional can find time that even very good drivers can't. I wonder what the Viper would do with its aerodynamic upgrades is capable of in the hands of a similar driver...it's already 3 tenths quicker.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/28/c...off-ring-time/
Apparently Magnussen piloted the car this time. Amazing how a true professional can find time that even very good drivers can't. I wonder what the Viper would do with its aerodynamic upgrades is capable of in the hands of a similar driver...it's already 3 tenths quicker.
10-28-2008 | 09:42 PM
#6
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Not to do the "I told you so" but I got ROYALLY flamed for suggesting EXACTLY this in the first ZR1 thread.....
Just the highlights-
Now I want to see some onboard!!! 
Just the highlights-
No doubt it could turn a much quicker lap time with someone like Jan behind the wheel.....
I can't speak about other companies for all I know they could have lots of people, but what I said for GM still stands. Most of them are not racers, Heinricy has brought in people with more of a performance background to help out in the performance division, but most of the actual engineers, came from just that engineering. I can't speak for ones that have decided they like driving and have ventured into racing. Nor did I say they are slouch's, Heinricy trains them well. Just when it comes to raw speed and talent background makes a huge difference, you can only train them so well.
I can't speak about other companies for all I know they could have lots of people, but what I said for GM still stands. Most of them are not racers, Heinricy has brought in people with more of a performance background to help out in the performance division, but most of the actual engineers, came from just that engineering. I can't speak for ones that have decided they like driving and have ventured into racing. Nor did I say they are slouch's, Heinricy trains them well. Just when it comes to raw speed and talent background makes a huge difference, you can only train them so well.
Sorry, MTosi... while what you say is true for other areas of GM, it doesn't apply for the Corvette team. Don't confuse on-the-job certification with training, and don't think for a minute that they only do it for the day job.
Some here are significantly underestimating the experience and ability of the GM/Corvette drivers - perhaps that's easier than admitting how capable the car is? Sad, the level of some of the feedback here is only barely above the GTR fanbois waving their ******** on the Corvette forums. Gold chains and drifting waves... I can only hope those comments were made in jest.
Some here are significantly underestimating the experience and ability of the GM/Corvette drivers - perhaps that's easier than admitting how capable the car is? Sad, the level of some of the feedback here is only barely above the GTR fanbois waving their ******** on the Corvette forums. Gold chains and drifting waves... I can only hope those comments were made in jest.
Yeah, but my point is this: there's a difference in being a really good racer and a really fast driver. Not all fast drivers make good racers and very few racers make good test drivers. Like I said...Magnussen may hop in the car and be faster, but I'd lay 50% odds on the test driver who spends 30-40 hours a week behind the wheel of this particular car for his day job.
Other than Heinricy I'd be willing to bet you are 100% wrong, give Magnussen three laps (assuming he's driven the ring before) and he'll be faster by ALOT not just a second or two, as I mentioned I know one of the GM development guys and they are all mechanical engineers, with generally no experience driving before they start. Heinricy trains all the test drivers once they start at GM, starting from slaloms, skid pads, to Auto-X and they have to get signed off at each level and get within a certain time of Heinricy on each given event. They are well trained and very consistent, but in terms of raw lap times and speed I'll put my money on an ex- F1 driver, over a random mechanical engineer with some driving experience any day of the week. That being said would Magnussen be a better test driver, probably not, he doesn't have the background in the technical aspects of car development (vs setup) to develop a car from the ground up.
If we assume what you've stated above then the ZR1 should turn an even quicker lap at some point.
But unfortunately, its not entirely true. I know quite a few development engineers and test drivers with a few companies. True most are trained as mech eng. but the ones I know are no slouch behind the wheel. Most have driving experience before taking the job and about 50% race, one of which does so on a semi-pro basis. That being said I still think a true professional will set down the quickest ultimate lap.
But unfortunately, its not entirely true. I know quite a few development engineers and test drivers with a few companies. True most are trained as mech eng. but the ones I know are no slouch behind the wheel. Most have driving experience before taking the job and about 50% race, one of which does so on a semi-pro basis. That being said I still think a true professional will set down the quickest ultimate lap.
Last edited by MTosi; 10-28-2008 at 10:10 PM.
10-28-2008 | 10:05 PM
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10-29-2008 | 09:09 AM
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A laptime that is less than 1% faster doesn't exactly convince me of anything other than perhaps Magnussen didn't get held up at one spot the other driver did. Translated back down to a normal length track, the same % translates to an improvement of 1 second in our car at VIR or 8/10ths at Road Atlanta...those aren't "much quicker" times by any stretch of the imagination. On a track as long as the ring that is populated by all sorts of cars, a 9/10ths of a percent improvement doesn't make you point IMO. Way too many other factors on a public 7+ minute course than to suggest that all of that laptime difference is due to driver.
10-29-2008 | 11:03 AM
#11
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Hell, track conditions alone regularly make a 1% difference at VIR. Weather/temperature does too. Just the cooler weather of fall may be enough to make a few more ponies to power the Vette down all of those long straights at the ring.
That point is even made in the article:
That point is even made in the article:
We take these lap times with a grain of salt, as we've yet to see everyone on the 73-turn course under the same conditions, and with officially certified timing equipment.
10-29-2008 | 01:29 PM
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Want to see a fair and square test at the Nring?
Check this:
http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/...s-in-hell.html
Heinricy is VERY good and probably the one that knows any Vette better than anyone else. Nevertheless, Magnussen and others at that level will always be faster (Doesn't matter by how much as in racing 1/10th or less is good enough for a win)
Check this:
http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/...s-in-hell.html
Heinricy is VERY good and probably the one that knows any Vette better than anyone else. Nevertheless, Magnussen and others at that level will always be faster (Doesn't matter by how much as in racing 1/10th or less is good enough for a win)
Last edited by cgomez; 10-29-2008 at 03:52 PM.
10-29-2008 | 02:45 PM
#13
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Perhaps Vette learned something about the tires the last time that allowed them to go faster this time? Perhaps they found a healthier motor that came off the production line to stick in the car? Perhaps they filled the transmission and diff with the thinnest fluids they possibly could (with the expectation that they won't last more than a few hours at speed)? Perhaps the temperature was a little cooler or Magnussen picked up the draft from another fast car, allowing quicker runs down the straights?
When you can see a 1/10th of a percent change in laptimes on the same day, in the same car, with the same setup and same driver due to nothing but changing track conditions, it's silly to compare laptimes on different days, with different conditions, and potentially different setups on the car and say that the different driver is without a doubt the reason for the less than 1/10th of 1 percent improvement in laptime.
10-29-2008 | 02:58 PM
#14
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From: Sterling, MA
Want to see a fair and square test at the Nring?
Check this:
http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/...s-in-hell.html
Check this:
http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/...s-in-hell.html
I can't wait until the other video's come out (especially the CGT)! The Enzo one lap was incredible, and that guy (Marc Basseng) is one hell of a driver!
http://www.supercarmovies.com For the next episodes I guess....
10-29-2008 | 04:03 PM
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Absolutely it is...but that's in RACING between cars on the track at the same time in the same conditions. That doesn't apply to trying to compare laptimes on different days between different drivers in a car that could have a different setup.
Perhaps Vette learned something about the tires the last time that allowed them to go faster this time? Perhaps they found a healthier motor that came off the production line to stick in the car? Perhaps they filled the transmission and diff with the thinnest fluids they possibly could (with the expectation that they won't last more than a few hours at speed)? Perhaps the temperature was a little cooler or Magnussen picked up the draft from another fast car, allowing quicker runs down the straights?
When you can see a 1/10th of a percent change in laptimes on the same day, in the same car, with the same setup and same driver due to nothing but changing track conditions, it's silly to compare laptimes on different days, with different conditions, and potentially different setups on the car and say that the different driver is without a doubt the reason for the less than 1/10th of 1 percent improvement in laptime.
Perhaps Vette learned something about the tires the last time that allowed them to go faster this time? Perhaps they found a healthier motor that came off the production line to stick in the car? Perhaps they filled the transmission and diff with the thinnest fluids they possibly could (with the expectation that they won't last more than a few hours at speed)? Perhaps the temperature was a little cooler or Magnussen picked up the draft from another fast car, allowing quicker runs down the straights?
When you can see a 1/10th of a percent change in laptimes on the same day, in the same car, with the same setup and same driver due to nothing but changing track conditions, it's silly to compare laptimes on different days, with different conditions, and potentially different setups on the car and say that the different driver is without a doubt the reason for the less than 1/10th of 1 percent improvement in laptime.
When manufacturers run their laps, the track is usually empty. If it were open to the public (Touristfahren) a complete lap would not be posible (need to stop to put your ticket back in)
My point is that Magnussen is in absolute terms faster than Heinricy so GM will always be better off having Magnussen to do the best possible lap rather than Heinricy.
Also, as much as I love that place, and those days there are my favorite tracktime of the year, IMO the best lap time a car can achieve around the track doesn't tell you much about a car other than how much absolute HP it has (It has a lot of flatout high speed sections) and how well it stands in the HP/weight equation. This is why the 7:29 by the GTR doesn't really fit properly within the parameters (most other "claimed" laps of supercars kind of do). I can almost guarantee you that car has a LOT more than the claimed 480hp...
However, driving the NRing will tell you a lot about a car's handling but that doesn't translate into stopwatch times necessarily. A Pro driver wil achieve very similar laptimes on cars with similar weights and power but the experience might be completely different. That subjective aspect is what I care the most and I can tell you that a well setup 911 is a blast to race around Green Hell (On the other hand a 3 series BMW racecar is the most confidence inspiring and safer, and probably the best tool to learn the track)