NASA vs PCA racing
10-26-2008, 01:37 PM
#46
Three Wheelin'
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Oh great...I have one more race before the "R" comes off my car and it will likely be in the newly prepared 944 with you guys. I hope it was warm out for Brent.
10-26-2008, 04:04 PM
#47
NASA Racer
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Not for the first race. They'll give you a logbook and one race. You then have to have the corrections by the next race. The NASA guys are very accommodating. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd give you a waiver as a factory race car.
10-26-2008, 04:18 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
What Sean is saying is an understatement. Because NASA is run as a business for profit, they treat you as a client and work to make your experience a good one. The other point about running with NASA is traffic management is alot different during the Thunder races for GTS cars. You are mixed in with alot of cars with more horsepower, but less suspension so you end up in alot of traffic situations that do not yield fast laps.
10-26-2008, 05:53 PM
#49
Nordschleife Master
Which according to Larry is 2 secs a lap. I have run with both and think the GTS2,3 fields are pretty good and competitive. The GTS4 group just needs more cars. Look at it this way, if the field is that much slower than Colin, then he can win some races and get free tires.
2750lbs / 250rwhp = 11.00. I suppose I could take out some things (rear deck lid for a wing) and get closer to the class cutoff.
10-26-2008, 08:20 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Colin, have you had the car dyno'd? Would be a good basis to see where the car would class. US cups like the ones the run in H would run GTS4 or with weight run GTS3. Not sure where the Euro cups end up, but I would guess similar. BTW the 996 02's and higher pull over 300hp at the wheel on the dyno with exhaust added. Surprised the hell out of me. I thought they would be around 270-280hp. Stock 964 RSA's-240 plus hp, but with chip and exhaust almost 260hp.
10-26-2008, 09:09 PM
#51
Nordschleife Master
Colin, have you had the car dyno'd? Would be a good basis to see where the car would class. US cups like the ones the run in H would run GTS4 or with weight run GTS3. Not sure where the Euro cups end up, but I would guess similar. BTW the 996 02's and higher pull over 300hp at the wheel on the dyno with exhaust added. Surprised the hell out of me. I thought they would be around 270-280hp. Stock 964 RSA's-240 plus hp, but with chip and exhaust almost 260hp.
10-27-2008, 11:07 AM
#52
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Just go for it. The times at Road Atlanta this year were the same way in GTS4. I figured an easy win with the times I was getting on practice day. But, everyone seems to step up there game as competition increases. It turned out to be a very competitive, fun race. It was a difficult battle on that Sunday as well. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with NASA.
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10-27-2008, 02:24 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Joel -
Bring your umbrella!
We don't do this to everyone, and it was over 80 degrees out, but you never know.
The Rocky Mountain guys got Ray with cheap beer 
(after he was done racing).
Bring your umbrella!
We don't do this to everyone, and it was over 80 degrees out, but you never know.
The Rocky Mountain guys got Ray with cheap beer (after he was done racing).
10-27-2008, 07:55 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Looking forward to my first NASA GTS 2 race. VIR February 2009. Need to finish the break in on the motor and update my seat, belts and a few other things. Plus a trip to Richmond to the official NASA MA dyno.
That said I have been to and know several of the Mid Atlantic 944 Cup drivers, plus Jeff Curtis and they all have a great time and I am looking forward to racing with them.
That said I have been to and know several of the Mid Atlantic 944 Cup drivers, plus Jeff Curtis and they all have a great time and I am looking forward to racing with them.
10-28-2008, 12:14 AM
#55
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Colin, what tires are run in GTC to run 2:06s at VIR. GTS3 runs 2:09s on DOTs (M3's) I have not had a healthy car at a NASA race yet (still chasing an engine fault dropping power when warm), but I have seen some good driving. GTS3 cars have run 1:21 flat at Summit and that is pretty damn fast for a car that would class in "H". Agreed GTS4 is thin. I think you should try running with Midatlantic and have fun.
Isnt that your home track"? Come on!!!
10-28-2008, 10:12 AM
#56
Intermediate
As a case in point, at this year's PCA race at Mid-Ohio, the fastest E class lap (runing the full course with the 2-3 kink) was a 1:42.3 put down by Jim Child, the 2007 NASA GTS2 Champ. In the NASA National Championship race this year (in terrible conditions including 60mph winds), on the Mid-Ohio pro course (skipping the kink), Jim turned a best of 1:41.1 and finished third in class (GTS2). The best lap of the race was Carl Picelle with a 1:40.2, who finished second.
In August of this year, under much better conditions, I ran a 1:38.7 on the same course in qualifying (also GTS2).
So, in this instance at least, the guys running at the front of the pack in PCA are the same guys running at the front of the pack in NASA, but not without good strong competition (neither Carl nor I run in PCA anymore, for instance).
In our region, we typically have 10 or so cars in each of GTS2 and 3 with half or more of them running within a second or so of one another. Great racing front to back.
12-08-2008, 09:20 PM
#59
Nordschleife Master
As a case in point, at this year's PCA race at Mid-Ohio, the fastest E class lap (runing the full course with the 2-3 kink) was a 1:42.3 put down by Jim Child, the 2007 NASA GTS2 Champ. In the NASA National Championship race this year (in terrible conditions including 60mph winds), on the Mid-Ohio pro course (skipping the kink), Jim turned a best of 1:41.1 and finished third in class (GTS2). The best lap of the race was Carl Picelle with a 1:40.2, who finished second.
In August of this year, under much better conditions, I ran a 1:38.7 on the same course in qualifying (also GTS2).
So, in this instance at least, the guys running at the front of the pack in PCA are the same guys running at the front of the pack in NASA, but not without good strong competition (neither Carl nor I run in PCA anymore, for instance).
In August of this year, under much better conditions, I ran a 1:38.7 on the same course in qualifying (also GTS2).
So, in this instance at least, the guys running at the front of the pack in PCA are the same guys running at the front of the pack in NASA, but not without good strong competition (neither Carl nor I run in PCA anymore, for instance).
I still see the issue with GTS as the class structure. While simple is great, a newer chassis will have a significant advantage...a 2500lb / 250hp cayman will crush a 2500lb /250hp torsion bar 911. I do plan to try GTS this year to see for myself.
12-09-2008, 11:15 AM
#60
Race Director
The beauty and horror in the GTS rules is just that.
Simple power vs weight.
However NASA has other classes where their is a more traditional rules structure. The performance touring classes have ladder system with points for base class and then for each modification you do. The result is a tigther limit on what you will find in the class.
I have been racing with NASA since 2002 and found it to be really nice place to race. PCA is great too, but in my area it takes way too much effort to create a full season schedule from PCA and sicne there is no points series you don't get that feeling accomplishment and joy in chasing points.