stuttgart46

NASA racing is a really good time. I have done several NASA events and I have yet to see someone pull a boneheaded move. The racing is fun and the support from your peers is priceless. They run on schedule and you'll get a ton of seat time for the $. Plus the formula for classification is great and makes for some really close racing.
I'm looking forward to my first PCA race next month as a driver. I worked on the board of directors for a few years with PCA at the 48 Hours of Sebring and it was a well run event but now it's time for me to have some fun.

cstreit

I think individual experiences vary greatly based on the drivers around you. I can tell you that any Porsche that shows up at Road America after the PCA racing weekends is usually given the hairy eyeball by Saftey and Rescue. Last time I showed up at RA the weekend after the PCA weekend there, a grid worker even warned me. They had fourty, FOURTY car-to-car incidents to deal with with PCA. Never seen anything like that in NASA. but that's MY experience.

GTS, which is the series you're asking about, has a VERY strong 13/13 rule. In fact this year we enhanced it by popular demand. If you take someone out, damage their car, etc.. thru an at-fault incident, YOU don't get back out on the track untill THEY do. Ding their fender, you'll get a 13/13. Bend someting unfixable, you'll get your 13/13 and you'll be done too. I think this rule is awesome!

I am the regional Director for GTS NASA Midwest. Guess how many incidents I had to hand out 13/13's for in the region the last two years? None! Don't get me wrong, there will be contact at an event like Nationals. WHen guys are running within 100th's of each other for the title, it's gonna happen... But some of these responses are painting a very grim picture indeed. I don't know the people who posted about the frequent contact, but what I can tell you is the contact that I see is usually between the same people. Why is that? Perhaps BOTH drivers could have prevented a lot of it?

As I said, I think individual experiences may vary and would encourage you to form your own opinion.

DrJupeman

John H

It's different. In some respects better, in some worse. As far as contact, my experience has been that it is no different than PCA.

todinlaw

I have a totally different take on NASA v. PCA which may be just a bit off the topic, you decide. I am not a racer yet. still coming up through the DE ranks. Have done DE's with PCA and NASA. Mostly PCA. Now if you want to become a racer, NASA has a better stepping stone program. allows skill building through progressive HPDE program. PCA you do a crap load of DE's then go get a racing license. So My impression is that NASA is a bit more agressive generally from what I have seen but have no knowledge directly on point of Racers from one group are more agressive than the other.

MJR911

Try them both.

MUSSBERGER

Fourty is a lot!

gums

Have to agree with Todinlaw about the ladder process; PCA has it wrong.
But, if you try to select where you'll race based on trying to avoid contact, I think that's going to be misleading as well. Just get out there and watch your own ***.

924RACR

One point that's often overlooked, and I mentioned to numerous GTS racers when we were starting out, and lumped with other classes (without 13/13 rules):

You and you alone get to choose who you race with.

It's that simple.

You should know your competitors, and who you can trust to run clean (and who you can't).

When you're out there with other people, and you don't know for a fact that they run clean - don't race them! Certainly, you should at least avoid the dangerous side-by-side situations with the highest risk of damage.

Situational awareness is something all race drivers ought to have, if licensed. There should be nothing that happens out on track that takes you by surprise; any time you encounter body contact, IMO, it should be a result of a conscious decision to take that calculated risk.

I've even gone so far as going off-course to avoid being hit by cars losing control behind me. It's all about being aware of your surroundings.

This is nothing more than extension/elaboration of what gums just said - go out and watch your own ***. You are responsible for the outcome.

grehalva

I have raced in both PCA and NASA. I run in the 44 Cup with NASA and the guys I raced with are great, good drivers and have not had an incident. Many of them run at PCA event as well.
The issue for me is seat time. NASA is very limited compared to PCA. Run groups can be very big with NASA we had 73 cars at Barber!
Rich

good hands

if I reading this correctly I will be on the track at the same time with cars who are subject to a 13/13 rule and cars that aren't. Seems like it defeats the purpose.

bobt993

(regarding NASA)

Scott, 90% of the cars running in other groups are well aware of who they are racing and will give you room to move forward of them. The grid is also staged with several starts separated on the pace lap, so catching the slower groups is not immediate if at all. You will find one of two cars that will challenge you to a corner and are out of your class. If you talk with the driver(s), I think you will find no problems in the future. I like the mixed class racing as you find race craft as important as simply being fast on an open track.

M758

Yep,
However PCA guys tend to think 13/13 will prevent contact. It does not. I feel 13/13 is nice way to make guys feel safe, but does not prevent idoits from being idiots. It can create problems when trying to race and a simple mistake happens. Of course this is not a discussion about 13/13.

I do want to say that if you are on track with non 13/13 cars there are two things to remember 1) You are NOT in their class so don't rac them. They should not race you so there should never be "incidental contact". 2) NASA racers that don;t race under 13/13 are not just going to hit you just to hit you. Punting is still penalized in NASA.

jaje

PCA DEs are more about getting out on the track and learning to drive - from novice to advanced stages. NASA DEs start out that way until you get into the advanced / TT groups where they start allowing people to give point bys in corners (a God send for those of us who have lower HP cars so we can get behind those who simply drag race the straights), do exercises such as drive side-by-side with a designated partner all the way around the track at a reduced speed (sounds crazy but it is very educational), even share the track with comp school students (who were advanced students).

Honestly if you want to race you are entering a risky proposition and contact can happen regardless of what class you are in. If there is an out of control driver they are quickly dealt with or banned in PCA or NASA.

I've yet to race in PCA (will be doing SP1 next year with my local PCA) but my experience in NASA is competition and respect but there are racing incidents b/c in a series like Spec Miata and 944 Spec the cars are very tightly monitored and it is down to the driver meaning their is less margin for error as packs stay together more b/c it is more competitive - no one person can spend their way to the top like in many other organizations. If a racer does block repeatedly a slower car that is taken into account that you are not respecting the faster guys who want to pass. If we want to put contact under the microscope - it happens in all racing forms from F1, ALMS, SpeedWC, Rolex Series, BTCC, WTCC, etc.

Honestly - the point of racing is fighting for position and in any sport where you do that contact can happen. Another note is NASA is for profit organization and I've found them to be very amicable to complaints and suggestions (they seem to move faster to make improvements than other racing organizations).

jrgordonsenior

Please clarify.... Does that last over the course of weeks or even months if they significantly damage another's car or is it just for that event? What if the car's totalled, or what of the other driver doesn't have the funds to instantly repair his car? Is the at-fault-driver still suspended indefinitely?

I think it's an interesting idea and I would like to read more about it....