I attended the Schattenbaum DE earlier this month. It was a lot of fun. I have been to the go-karting course at NJ Motorspark, and that was a blast too. I am been debating on whether to go more into go-karting or into driver’s education. Cost wise, I know DE are more expensive. However, which motorsport is safer? That is what I am looking to get some insights here.

Some things to consider: I won’t be driving the go-karts competitively. So, no super karts for me. To begin with, I’ll be driving the 9hp karts at NJMP. I think these are very safe cars, as they go “bumpers” to guard the wheels. What about moving towards the TAG (tough and go) maybe 16-25 hp ones and shifter 100/125cc ones? How safe is that sport compare with driver’s education events?

 

The 9hp motor karts are ok but i think you will get bored very quickly with them on a big open track. Indoors they are great on a small track.

tags motors make more than 25hp, my yamaha pipe made 24hp. If you run a yamaha you need to have it rebuilt every year at 800 a pop, stick a tag motor and your at about $1k to fix it. Replace axle $100.

karting is great, but it can be expensive if you plan to race. Plus it can hurt. I have been run over three times, before i bought an expensive carbon rib protector i damaged my ribs, heck i just did GPNY and did not where a protector and my rib is killing me because i was jolted from the side.

Is karting safer than DE, it depends, are you in a car prepared with race seats, roll bar etc...? DE you are in a car, strapped in and you are not in a racing situation which to me would mean you will be in less situations where people are very agrressivelly looking to pass you and run you off the track.

Dont get me wrong karting is fast and exciting but it hurts getting thrown out and also getting run over. And if you plan to race your own kart do not think its cheap, the parts add up,, trailer, tires, gas, engine rebuilds,it probably is cheaper but not CHEAP!

Why not put some money into a nice DE car and rent a kart every once in a while in the summer and in the winter.

just my .02 and only my .02 worth.

 

Stay away from ICC/shifters. Never a first kart.
TaG (Rotax or Parilla Leopard) would be a great 'low cost/low maintenance' entry karting option.
Karting at the 'club' level is much safer than at the National level, where contact is considered normal (one new nosecone each event)
As mentioned, you really won't learn much in the 'arrive and drive concession' karts compared to a proper sprint chassis kart.

Speak to Tim Hannen (GM at NJMP karting facility). He is a great guy who has been around karting for years. He wont' steer you wrong.

As for "low cost", I have a rack full of $300 axles, engines that cost $1000 to rebuild after each race weekend, multiple chassis, a trailer full of parts/spares/tools....all for a son who doesn't have a driver's license.

 

As far as safe, generally yes, but there are occasions when you find yourself in a bad spot (remember, these are open wheel machines). Tire to tire contact can sometimes end up badly

My son was in a bad wreck at Moroso in FL in February. Horrific to watch, came home in a wheelchair with broken foot and shoulder. I still have some vague memories of Logan Airport at midnight, wheeling him out to the curb, his mother hit me and I don't remember much after that.
Fortunately, he was wearing his Leatt neck brace; he never goes out without it (he rolled, nosed, flipped and ended up upside down in the seat with the #225 kart on top of his head/neck).

 

Like anything else; it's as safe as you make it.

I once saw a safety ranking in Grassroots, rating the various motorsports and likelihood of crashing. Went something like this:

Autocross: highly unlikely
Drags: not very likely
track days: a possibility
road racing: pretty likely
rally: Virtualy assured

Love that last one!

 

i really thought differently regarding your club level and national level comment, I did a national at beave run and to be honest i went in to turns 2 and 3 wide and felt more comfortable than i did going into a turn with someone on the club level. I just felt national level drivers were not going to just risk it all for one turn.

 

thank god he is ok and he was wearing his brace. I have a 4yr old who wants to race next year, this should be fun with the wife.

lets face it, going to work in nyc is dangerous but i do it every day!

 

The competition in the IRL Stars of Karting series, at least in the Intercontinental A Junior (JICA) is pretty 'physical'. Still tame by European standards.
Turn 1 starts are always an adventure and there is ample use of bodywork to "assist slower drivers in moving safely out of the way."
From what my son tells me, you never follow a slower driver for more than 2 laps....sometimes no more than 2 turns.
It depends on the driver and the circumstances. When its' time to go, it's time to go.

You can spend $100K to run a full season of Stars.......or so I've been told.

 

50cc Kid Karts (Bambino, ages 5-8) are pretty safe. The speeds are fairly low (throttle stops and gearing helps with that).

Believe it or not, there is a class for kids under 5 yrs old now running.....there was a 2 1/2 year old driver.

 

Ajcjr, thanks for the insight on the cost and some of the risk. Those tags cost more than I thought they would. If I ever move up beyond the “arrive and drive” concession karts, I’ll be sure to get a rib protector. Sounds like it is a necessity to me like helmets.

So far, I have no plans to race the karts. But, don’t we all start out that way in sports. As of now, I view karting as potentially a lower cost way and safer way to improve upon my street car DE driving. My understanding is that at the beginning stage, karting and DE are very similar. At the shifter kart (for sure at the super kart level), I think some differences begin to show up between street car DE and karting. I think karting is closer to open wheel motoring. Please correct me if I have the wrong perception.

That said, in the beginning, I would try both until I get tired of the 9hp karts and decide from there.

My car is mostly stock except for minor mods here and there. So, not much investment has been put in. No racing seats or harness at the moment.

Itc, first of all, your avatar brings a smile to my face no matter how many times I have seen it. Best avatar I have seen.

That’s a good idea to talk to Tim Hannen. I saw him when I was there one time, but did not get a chance to speak to him.

I hear you when you said about the bad wreck your son was in. I have seen some scary ones on TV in the kids racing scene. Your son hopefully will be a great driver some time perhaps making it into F1 or ALMS.

Gums, that’s a great list there. I would have done more auto-X, except I can’t stand waiting around all day for 6 one minute runs, plus I get lost inside those cone tracks.

 

Karting definitely carries some real risks. A couple of us here have broken ribs karting. I was just reading how a teen died in an accident karting; tumbled off course into some fencing. I feel MUCH more at risk karting than in my car at a DE since you're so exposed. OTOH, it's cheaper, more challenging, and makes you a better driver faster.

 

TaG cost: There is now a Chinese copy (really) of the Parilla Leopard engine (The PRD Fireball, made in China) which is a $1500 engine (compared to $4000 for the Leopard). It has been thru it's "teething" phase and has won some races. A very good entry level TaG option, along with a used chassis (32mm or 30/32mm, depending on size/weight of driver).

Rib protector: I've only seen one person drive without a rib vest. Can't imagine what it was like, especially if the seat isn't fitted properly.

Suit: Level 2 CIK suit. Lots of options and prices.
Helmet: K or SA rated and as always.....FIT, FIT and FIT.
Neck: believe it or not, in the senior classes, the use of a foam collar/neck brace is now OPTIONAL per the FIA/CIK. My son was one of the very first to wear a Leatt, and after his wreck, a lot more kids and adults now ask about it and end up with one.

 

What is your goal? Karting is useful and fun, but if you really want to drive a car better, I think you need to drive the car. Compared to other motorsports, I think DE is the safest and the cheapest.
Safe because you define your own limit. rarely are you taken out by another car.
Cheap because your car can be left bone stock. You can decide to shift 500 rpm short of the redline, or cool it in a dangerous corner, becaus there is no winner, and there are no losers.
If you decide you need to push to the limit, everything becomes expensive and more dangerous. If those are burdens you seek to avoid, then DE allows you to drive at 9/10ths, 8/10ths or whatever. AS

 

I'd put karting more towards the motorcycle category in safety terms- especially if you're going to enter races frequently.

combine brutal acceleration and cornering forces with open wheels, no roll protection, and large classes running similar power...it's like a sick combination of f1, motogp and spec miata. lots of ways it can go wrong in a hurry.

I don't care how expensive it is, driving a car is the safest way to be on the track.

that being said- karting is real racing, and hones reflexes very quickly- just at the expense of injury.

 

timely post, I just picked up one of these last weekend:

Arrow AX9 w/ Honda CR125