Matias_S

^
+1

Larry Herman

Ok, I'll buy that. If you are coming up on an unknown car, you do need to leave a little in hand, and it would not be unreasonable to expect the BMW to pause a little as he enters the esses. That it quite a bit different from checking up.

Seth Thomas

The way I see incident, it doesn't matter if the SE30 checks up or lifts in the esses or not. The Miata and the 944 were out of control well before entering the esses. They were making contact in T3 when they first come into view. They were on a mission not to let each other pass and they carried this on until the SE30 got involved. The miata had lots red mist on his visor and never gave any kind of room to the SE30, a car he was not racing. In all the racing I have ever been involved with it is the overtaking cars responsibility not to make contact.

Summary: Miata driver was at fault no matter what.

bobt993

Jim, GTS3 and up never run with the Pinatas. I have been on the track during practice with spec30s and Miatas and agree the Miatas think every car out there is competition for the next corner (usually a bad idea to try and pass them just before corner entry). I am not sure how the 13 transfers from racing group to group, but they are pretty clean in GTS and Spec E30.

M758

Well none of that can be determined from the video. Clearly the E30 loses the back end and everyone else is scrambling for clear track. It is not clear from the video it the Miata got into the E30 or not.

It does sound like from what you said the Miata tapped the E30 to get things rolling. Who's fault? Well in real racing terms tough to say. If the E30 checked up for no apparent reason then the Miata can't be blamed as any racer will try to tuck up tight behind the car in front in attempt to pull out for a pass down the track. That section is generally fast and there is no reason not be on it there.

Now if the E30 was always slow there and all way backed out if because their skill level did not allow for them to go through there as fast as they should well... Tougher. It is hard to blame the E30 driver for driving in their limits, but it can be dangerious to brake and slow where everyone else is flat on the limit. Problems like this can result. As such it could be the Miata driver's fault, but unless the E30 guy clearly demonstarated this pattern lap after lap to the Miata it easy to get caught out. As such it would consider it a tough luck racing incident.

BTW... I have follow cars on occasion where I am flat out and had to unexpectedly back out because of a less than optimally driven car in front slowed. It can be really spooky.

M758

I don't agree with either statment.

The miata driver was aggressive, but that white 944 almost tagged him when they both pass the camera car. Also remember in the camera car these tend to come out of nowhere. If you on the track you know their are cars ridding your butt looking to pass so would not be so suprised.

So I do agree it was agressive, but this is racing and when there is spot you need to just take and take it hard lest the door get closed.

As for 13/13 I don't know what that would have done. It does not appear that the Miata punted the E30 and Mtosi's discription does not indicate that. He seems to think the miata guy was caught out by the E30's lack of speed right there. So while fault could be given I don't know there was any "bonehead" stuff going on. The other think is that were these two cars making passes for position or passing lap cars. Or was it the case of two faster cars starting the back of field. It looks like both the Miata and 944 where faster than the rest of the cars through this section of track and were trying to get through what was slower, but similar hp cars.

MTosi

If anyone is interested here are the original discussions, including people who were there.

http://44cup.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=2871

http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/u...pic/33/90.html

KRA993tt

+1 Voice of reason and experience here.

FWIW GTS is not running with the Spec Miata's and E30's those were spec 944 cars. We have run all the German cars as a group including the spec cars and it went quite well. It's a numbers management thing I'm sure, trying to get as many people safely on track and expecting drivers to act respectfully to other classes. The two guys pushing around all the others were the catalyst for this outcome. They obviously are not even running against each other in class. Regarding the comment about the 13/13 rule from what I have witnessed here with NASA-SE, if someone is doing things that draw attention they are spoken to and if they are unresponsive they are no longer welcome on the track. This is just the authority of the series director.

M758

Those were 944 CUP cars not 944 spec cars. Just to set the record straight.

DrJupeman

That's what I saw, but you said it better.

KRA993tt

Well they are both out there at the same time if that helps. I am unfamiliar with what makes a 944cup. I thought the 944cup was a spec series my mistake.

Veloce Raptor

Holy smokes, just watched the clip. Seth is exactly right--Miata driver ran out of talent in T3 and never got it back, went inside entering the esses & turned the E30 right around going down the hill. What a putz. I wonder if the Miata was being driven by Tom Nastasi?

PedroNole

Again...brutal

Veloce Raptor

Heheheheeee! Maybe I could have said Michael McDowell?

MUSSBERGER

Ditto