3.4L X51 Availability
06-13-2008, 05:24 PM
#16
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Hi..
You can flash your 5.2.2 with the 3.4 X51 program my friend runs that on his Boxster with a 3.4 motor.
As for me a shop did all the work cause they had the experience. I had some local options but no one who had done it and knew what lay ahead. I wasn't about to pay for someone else to learn. Originally I set out to put a 3.6 x51 in but due to some seller issues ended up with a 3.6. As for my project; I don't recall a ton of problems, you may be thinking of someone that attempted to do this themselves. While my car was being fine tuned the shop and the DME tuner sent my DME back and forth several times to optimize things to make this a seamless OEM like result that's all.
Remember, they had a customer from over 10 hours away who was going to fly in and drive the car home. IE.. Work out any issues and guarantee me that I get home is what I remember saying
There is a little knowhow involved here but not rocket science. I do think there is some special sauce in the DME tuning aspects and fuel maps. Some GT3 drivers have been surprised to how hard the car pulls when sitting in the passenger seat (torque). Also, JimB had this done prior to me as well but that was a pure racecar application.
Good luck!
-Paul
You can flash your 5.2.2 with the 3.4 X51 program my friend runs that on his Boxster with a 3.4 motor.
As for me a shop did all the work cause they had the experience. I had some local options but no one who had done it and knew what lay ahead. I wasn't about to pay for someone else to learn. Originally I set out to put a 3.6 x51 in but due to some seller issues ended up with a 3.6. As for my project; I don't recall a ton of problems, you may be thinking of someone that attempted to do this themselves. While my car was being fine tuned the shop and the DME tuner sent my DME back and forth several times to optimize things to make this a seamless OEM like result that's all.
Remember, they had a customer from over 10 hours away who was going to fly in and drive the car home. IE.. Work out any issues and guarantee me that I get home is what I remember saying
There is a little knowhow involved here but not rocket science. I do think there is some special sauce in the DME tuning aspects and fuel maps. Some GT3 drivers have been surprised to how hard the car pulls when sitting in the passenger seat (torque). Also, JimB had this done prior to me as well but that was a pure racecar application.
Good luck!
-Paul
Last edited by Paul 996; 06-13-2008 at 06:25 PM.
06-13-2008, 06:04 PM
#17
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I just checked out Paul 996's posts. He got his work done at a shop that already had 3.4->3.6 swap experience (not my case), and he _did_ have a ton of trouble getting his 5.2.2 DME working withe the 3.6. All things I want to avoid.
It looks like the X51 crate won't require anything that it doesn't come with, except an DME reprogramming. The 3.4 X51 always used the 5.2.2 DME.
All signs point to this not requiring a lot of extra work (knock on wood).
-Judd
It looks like the X51 crate won't require anything that it doesn't come with, except an DME reprogramming. The 3.4 X51 always used the 5.2.2 DME.
All signs point to this not requiring a lot of extra work (knock on wood).
-Judd
06-26-2008, 03:59 PM
#18
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Well, the new X51 engine just arrived at the dealership yesterday. They say it may be ready by the end of the week. I took some phone pics...
Old engine:
NOTE: Big hole in the crankcase
New 3.4L X51 engine:
NOTE: Additional oil scavenge pump and return tube at bottom of engine on this side.
More news as it comes in!
-Judd
Old engine:
NOTE: Big hole in the crankcase
New 3.4L X51 engine:
NOTE: Additional oil scavenge pump and return tube at bottom of engine on this side.
More news as it comes in!
-Judd
06-26-2008, 06:13 PM
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Here's a pic that shows the headers better:
You can also see the fuel rails well in that pic.
The lightweight flyweel is a manual tranmission thing... I have a extra heavyweight torque converter, and there's nothing I can do about it.
The buisiness end of the intake system is what is on top of the engine in the pics (the shiny thing that says "PORSCHE"). Most aftermarket intake "upgrades" just change the filter.
Here's what the workshop manual say about the upgrades on an X51 engine:
Stats:
Engine type M96/01 M96/01 S
Max Power kW (HP) 221 (300) 235 (320)
at engine speed rpm 6800 6600
Max torque Nm (ftlb.) 350 (259) 360 (266)
at engine speed rpm 4600 5000
Rev limiter rpm 7300 7400
Idle Speed rpm 700 800
Top speed km/h 280 287
Differences:
1. Pistons - added valve recess clearance for exhaust valves
2. Camshafts - inlet and exhaust camshafts possess a greater cam stroke.
3a. Valve Seats: seat surface of 60 deg
3b. Valve Guides: shortened in the area of the inlet and outlet ducts
3c. Cylinder Head: reduced height (no machining possible)
4. Valves (ver2): lengthened by 1.5mm, not valve caps
5. Dual-chamber Suction Pump: fitted on front head of bank 4-6
6a. Oil Suction Pipe: returns oil from #5 to the rear of bank 4-6
6b. Valve Cover, Bank 4-6: Modified for return hole for #6a
6c. Heat Shield: cut to make room for #6a
7. Oil Pan with Partition Box: Aluminium partition box instead of plastic. Additional seals, and bigger box (I had this on my old engine).
8. Gasket for Exhaust Manifolds (headers): adapted for larger exhaust ducts
9. Exhaust Manifolds (headers): also adapted to the larger exhaust ducts (so I'm assuming there must be larger exhaust ducts on the cylinder heads...)
10. Suction Line on the A/C Compressor: modified for space reasons
11. Intake Pipes: adapted to the internal contours of the inlet ducts on the cylinder head. These are the parts where the fuel is mixed with air, right before the heads. This includes the new fuel rails.
12. Intake Distributors: Plastic left and right distributors have been modified, and are now castings (shiny things at the top of the engine). The manual doesn't say it here, but I think there's a lot more going on with this intake than the stock. I also think the throttle body is modified... but it doesn't say anything about it.
-Judd
07-17-2008, 12:53 PM
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I finally got my car back from the dealership today, with the new X51 motor installed.
THE SWAP:
There were a couple of complications along the way, but it wasn't that bad.
The first was that this engine wasn't intended for a Tiptronic trans car (*), so we had to modify the engine harness to add a couple of wires so that the DME can control the Tiptronic coolant valve (not a big deal).
A little extra plumbing was requred to fit the AC compressor, beyond the modified tube that is described for the X51 in the service manual (although getting parts for this took like an extra week).
For the DME, we were originally thinking that we would need to use at best the stock 3.4 code for euro engines, as there supposedly wasn't any DME code for this engine that included the portions of the code for interfacing with the Tiptronic trans. I was going to have to wait around for a couple of months 'till the DME guys comes back from Sweeden, and then pay like $3k for dyno time and a custom DME map.
However, when they went to install the DME code, they found that the euro X51 code works just fine with a Tiptronic. So that was a huge bonus here, and no more DME work is requried.
So, in summary, swapping in a euro X51 3.4 motor is in fact pretty easy. However, my experience was actually pretty stressful, due to some dealer related complications along the way (which I won't describe here).
OTHER COMPLICATIONS:
And then.... when I finally went to pick the car up, the found that it wouldn't take any gas. Since my car is a very early 996, it doesn't have the ORVR system, and thus the E6 fuse or cell connector was not the issue. It wasn't even the fuel pump tubes interfering with the gas float (a very common problem). After mucho hours of diagnosis, it turned out that the fuel filler neck was bad (I know, I was really miffed, too). Basically, near the end of the filler neck inside the tank is a flexible plastic elbow, before it terminates in a hard plastic tube with a flap to prevent backsplash that shuts a fuel pump off. During the really rough tow ride into the dealership (with 1/2 a tank of gas in the tank), the sloshing gas had completely pulled that elbow of the filler neck. After 10 years in the tank, that flexible elbow had expanded, and no longer fit snugly on the neck anymore, so the entire filler neck had to be replaced (about $600, not counting the full day of diagnosis time). It took nearly a week to get a new filler neck in stock.
I also had the car re-aligned to more of a stock alignment, which relates to the agreement with the wife that if I get the upgraded engine, I can't go back to the track for a while. It handles pretty oddly now. It's 1" higher all around (I was almost motorsports low, before), and the ride is now pretty bumpy. I now understand what people were talking about when going to the GT3 upper shock mounts in front. The steering is really darty now. At full track alignement/height, my felt awesome, so I was just thinking everybody talking about the drawbacks of these suspensions were just crazy. Align it (closer) to stock, and I know what they mean.
FIRST IMPRESSIONS OF THE MOTOR:
I can't say much yet, as I don't want to rev the engine too hard without breaking it in for a couple hundred miles.
The first thing I noticed is the rough idle. That is apparently just the nature of this engine, with the aggressive cams and DME code. It sort of kicks you in the butt at idle, like a tuned race motor does. It's kinda annoying, but it also kinda makes me grin
The motor pulls hard, but I really can't say anything on the performance until I can really rev the motor up properly.
Install pics coming shortly!
THE SWAP:
There were a couple of complications along the way, but it wasn't that bad.
The first was that this engine wasn't intended for a Tiptronic trans car (*), so we had to modify the engine harness to add a couple of wires so that the DME can control the Tiptronic coolant valve (not a big deal).
A little extra plumbing was requred to fit the AC compressor, beyond the modified tube that is described for the X51 in the service manual (although getting parts for this took like an extra week).
For the DME, we were originally thinking that we would need to use at best the stock 3.4 code for euro engines, as there supposedly wasn't any DME code for this engine that included the portions of the code for interfacing with the Tiptronic trans. I was going to have to wait around for a couple of months 'till the DME guys comes back from Sweeden, and then pay like $3k for dyno time and a custom DME map.
However, when they went to install the DME code, they found that the euro X51 code works just fine with a Tiptronic. So that was a huge bonus here, and no more DME work is requried.
So, in summary, swapping in a euro X51 3.4 motor is in fact pretty easy. However, my experience was actually pretty stressful, due to some dealer related complications along the way (which I won't describe here).
OTHER COMPLICATIONS:
And then.... when I finally went to pick the car up, the found that it wouldn't take any gas. Since my car is a very early 996, it doesn't have the ORVR system, and thus the E6 fuse or cell connector was not the issue. It wasn't even the fuel pump tubes interfering with the gas float (a very common problem). After mucho hours of diagnosis, it turned out that the fuel filler neck was bad (I know, I was really miffed, too). Basically, near the end of the filler neck inside the tank is a flexible plastic elbow, before it terminates in a hard plastic tube with a flap to prevent backsplash that shuts a fuel pump off. During the really rough tow ride into the dealership (with 1/2 a tank of gas in the tank), the sloshing gas had completely pulled that elbow of the filler neck. After 10 years in the tank, that flexible elbow had expanded, and no longer fit snugly on the neck anymore, so the entire filler neck had to be replaced (about $600, not counting the full day of diagnosis time). It took nearly a week to get a new filler neck in stock.
I also had the car re-aligned to more of a stock alignment, which relates to the agreement with the wife that if I get the upgraded engine, I can't go back to the track for a while. It handles pretty oddly now. It's 1" higher all around (I was almost motorsports low, before), and the ride is now pretty bumpy. I now understand what people were talking about when going to the GT3 upper shock mounts in front. The steering is really darty now. At full track alignement/height, my felt awesome, so I was just thinking everybody talking about the drawbacks of these suspensions were just crazy. Align it (closer) to stock, and I know what they mean.
FIRST IMPRESSIONS OF THE MOTOR:
I can't say much yet, as I don't want to rev the engine too hard without breaking it in for a couple hundred miles.
The first thing I noticed is the rough idle. That is apparently just the nature of this engine, with the aggressive cams and DME code. It sort of kicks you in the butt at idle, like a tuned race motor does. It's kinda annoying, but it also kinda makes me grin
The motor pulls hard, but I really can't say anything on the performance until I can really rev the motor up properly.
Install pics coming shortly!
07-17-2008, 10:25 PM
#26
Race Car
Glad to hear it's back up and running. On the rough idle thing...check the motor mounts. I had my car for nearly two years and it always had rough idle through the seat of the pants and did numerous little things to try to correct it (clean TB, replace plugs, etc).
Finally someone suggested that I may have a motor mount that was giving up. I installed the Wevo semi-solid mounts and the vibration I used to feel at idle is now gone. Could be that one of your mounts gave up somewhere in the motor-swap process.
Andy
Finally someone suggested that I may have a motor mount that was giving up. I installed the Wevo semi-solid mounts and the vibration I used to feel at idle is now gone. Could be that one of your mounts gave up somewhere in the motor-swap process.
Andy
07-22-2008, 04:49 PM
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Glad to hear it's back up and running. On the rough idle thing...check the motor mounts. I had my car for nearly two years and it always had rough idle through the seat of the pants and did numerous little things to try to correct it (clean TB, replace plugs, etc).
Finally someone suggested that I may have a motor mount that was giving up. I installed the Wevo semi-solid mounts and the vibration I used to feel at idle is now gone. Could be that one of your mounts gave up somewhere in the motor-swap process.
Andy
Finally someone suggested that I may have a motor mount that was giving up. I installed the Wevo semi-solid mounts and the vibration I used to feel at idle is now gone. Could be that one of your mounts gave up somewhere in the motor-swap process.
Andy
Did you use the blue bushings, or the new black bushings?
Thanks,
Judd
07-23-2008, 09:29 AM
#28
Race Car
The softer Black ones...it's still much more of a street car than a track car so I went for the softer option. I get some new harmonics through the car right around 3000 rpm that are from the stiffer than stock mounts...but my car has never been this vibration free in the cabin at idle.
07-28-2008, 07:11 PM
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The softer Black ones...it's still much more of a street car than a track car so I went for the softer option. I get some new harmonics through the car right around 3000 rpm that are from the stiffer than stock mounts...but my car has never been this vibration free in the cabin at idle.
Idle is a _little_ bit better when the engine is cold, but about the same when the engine is warn.
Other than that, they vibrate like crazy at 3000-4500 rpm, and some harmonics are present as low as 2000 rpm. Anything over 3000 rpm on these things is just shaking my interior to pieces.
Both of my stock mounts had failed, and it looked like heat was at least one part of that failure (they're also 10 years old).
I guess I'll just get new Porsche mounts and sell the Wevo's, but I hope they can handle the heat of tracking in Dallas...
-Judd
07-29-2008, 09:30 AM
#30
Race Car
Weird...did you get the black pillows? Didn't tighten them down too much or anything right? Mine's absolutely peaceful at idle now...vibrations at 3000+ are acceptable to me. Def. more present than stock but really not annoying by any means.
Everyone's different though with tollerances to NVH.
Everyone's different though with tollerances to NVH.