esscape26

I've been racing since 1995. I think I've been assessed 2 or 3 (oops) 13/13s in that time (they were mostly a long time ago). In one, I hit someone in their door (in a long braking zone) when I was trying to pass and they tried to block. I thought the other person should have also gotten a "co-13/13" but they did not.

I have also been a witness and also been hit where it was not deemed my fault.

In many cases, I find secrecy, inconsistency, lack of objective standards and an adverserial tone being pushed by everyone involved. ( I also found sexism directed at women's lack of judgement and driving skill but I know that is not of interest to most readers here. So don't go there, please.)

I've found identical incidents ruled upon differently. I've found certain "connected" people got off even when they were at fault. Others with reputation as "professionals" or "aggressive" or not in the in-crowd, just get them.

I would not change anything about what I did in any of the incidents I was involved in.

What are your thoughts? Have you left PCA racing over this issue?

FredC

931guru

I find it especially bold that you are questioning the powers that be with your car in the avatar!

924RACR

I would hope that wouldn't matter...

(I don't run with PCA, so can't comment)

jester911

There have been quite a few threads on the 13/13 rule here so a search may be in order.

Mark in Baltimore

Everyone knows who esscape26 is.

MJR911

...so lets give her some honest answers.

For the most part, fair. I took mine with a smile, no worries. I didn't think it was right (2006 Sebring), but lack of video made it a moot point. Can't blame the volunteers.

I DO think that an incident for a single car accident (sliding into tire wall in the rain) is ridiculous.

Azikara

I think we all know when we're in the wrong. One thing I didn't know, and this is the opinion of one official, is that there are different "techniques" that are acceptable in PCA versus pro racing. Let me give an example: Your opponent ahead of you miss-shifts coming out of a corner which has a very short straight before the next right hander. You pull alongside him on the inside of the braking zone. Your front wheel is at his door. BUT, and this is where it gets tricky, you keep him pinned to the left for as long as you can so as not to allow him a short and faster way around. In doing so you leave 1-2 ft of track on the inside of the turn in. Then, instead of co-existing, your opponent, taking advantage of the PCA rule saying that you must make use of the 1-2 ft you've left, chops you to the apex. Your car is nicked on the left fender as you jump off the gas to avoid. You get the 13. In this case you're told that if you'd had a wheel in the grass and not the 1-2 ft of track left and the same thing happens then the 13 would go to your opponent. Furthermore, you're 'educated' that, while your initial strategy is appropriate in pro-level racing, it is not appropriate nor tolerated in PCA. I'm sure this kind of thing is inconsistently dealt with all the time. Learning is fun. Be careful who you mimick when watching your favorite racer.

M758

In my 6 years of racing.
I have completed 8 PCA Club races and 74 NASA races. Never once had an incident in PCA so never had to deal with a 13/13.


In my NASA races once when off track and cause damage enough to be a "single" car 13/13 if it was a PCA races. It was not so once I fixed the car I completed the weekend with two class wins.

I have also had 3 or 4 car to car contact incidents. Of those only 1 was more than a light rub resuting a donut and some cracked paint to one or both cars. In each of these incidents I have talked to the other driver involved. Only 1 was nasty about it, but only saw him at the track once 2 years ago. He never came back and with his attitude I never missed him. The others were accidental rubs. Not on purpose, but a result of what happens when two cars run close. A 13/13 could have been issued, but there was no need.

The only semi major incident occured 3 years ago or so. It resulted in crushed passenger's door on my car and bent front fender on the other car. Not serious hit, but while I continued it put the other guy out of the race. We were friend when it happend and still friends now. I have replayed the incident in my mind many many times over those years. Fault could be assigned either or both drivers. The issue too much to get into here, but since neither of us had a 13/13 looming over us we could be more friendly about what happend. Neither of us liked it, but it was a part of racing and both of us learned something from it. Had we been forced to "defend" ourselves from a possble 13/13 it would have been quite easy to blame the other person 100% and no accept any responsibility. In the end someone else would have issued a 13/13 to at least one of us and that may very well have impacted our friendship. Both myself and the other driver have would rather not lose a friend to "racing" contact. Being bonehead is one thing, but when you race close and hard sometimes you don't leave the margin you should. Often times you can "get away" with it, but some times you don't. The result? Contact. Race long enough and you will be involved contact.

Personally I would rather have a driver able to look closely at what he/she did in the situation and look for faults intheir own drivering rather that try to blame the other guy. Any form where fault penalties will be applied have the tendancy to try to blame the other guy. When this happens little is learned and friendships can be ruined. I have looked at post incident video and even that rarely provides the entire picture.