Larry Herman

Stiffer springs definitely make things happen faster. If you need to compensate for less than optimal suspension geometry, then running stiffer springs will help get more grip by maintaining better tire contact area. The negative is that the operating envelope gets much smaller, and it gets increasingly harder to stay on the limit without going over it. It really is based on your car and your ability.

MTosi

You do want to make sure you don't over compensate and go too stiff. I've seen alot of people over compensate the other way. It drives me crazy to sit out at a corner and watch all these people with super stiff springs (usually way higher in the front) just understeer right through it without the slightest idea that they are doing it. I've found that less experienced drivers like a stiff car (again stiffer up front) since it gives them a comfort level of understeer and they feel like the car won't bite them, until as Larry and Bryan mentioned the back just snaps around instantly on them and they're left sitting backwards in the grass or wall wondering what just happened. I like to steer a car with the throttle so I prefer a relatively soft front end on a car to get the car to bite into the corners, and a stiffer rear end so it sort of skates around behind. All that being said you have to be comfortable with oversteer to have a setup like that on the car. To get realy quick anywhere you can't think of the car sliding as a "mistake" you have to correct for, it should happen regularly in every lap and you shouldn't have to think about it, anyway thats just my .02 cents worth about car setup and going faster.

GT3 Nut

I don't think I can change springs in GTC3 without it bumping me to GTA, right?

GT3 Nut

I think I really need a good coach as you say. When you start instructing at DE's I think you just stagnate. Then it shows when you run with faster guys in a race. I will be arranging something with a coach very soon hopefully.

I think a good set up will help me, no doubt, but I am sure a better driver could go much faster in my car as it is.

Chris L.

Though the springs must not be changed, much can be gained from the can pressures of the any make double adjustable shocks that are now allowed.

Veloce Raptor

I agree with less experienced folks preferring it stiffer up front, whereas the really fast folks prefer it the other way around. But it takes real talent to be able to stay ahead of the car as you go stiffer & stiffer, as Larry and others alluded.

Matt, I'd be happy to privately look at your videos & offer commentary, gratis. PM me and I will give you my email address (or you can post them somewhere & PM me the URL).

-Dave

ZAPmobile

Matt,

I don't agree with your statement about stagnating when you become an instructor. Just because we become instructors doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep on learning.

Margo and I constantly strive to improve our times by riding with others and have other, top-notch drivers, instructors or not (after all, some non-instructors are excellent drivers), ride with us.

There are many great instructors at any track event, and you should consider using the people who you think are doing a better job than you as your first line of being coached. Once you are in the car and develop bad habits, it is nearly impossible to identify and correct them yourself without outside input.

There are so many nuances to learning a track, and we'll use VIR as a simple illustration.

Entering the Climbing Esses correctly — and many people do not, including instructors — can knock at least a second off your time, if not more. It can be as little as a foot or two of difference in the turn-in point. Even the Kink on the front straight, or the top of the Roller Coaster, or ...

Having someone in your right seat or your being in someone else's right seat can lead to big gains.

I never understand the attitude amongst so many instructors that they don't have anything else to learn.

One of the first things you need to do is get that chassis set-up sorted out. It will make an incredible difference in your confidence in the car and its abilities. Take a look at some of the photos of the other 996 Cups passing you and how much flatter they are through the corners, not lifting wheels as your car does.

So, iterating the above, your fellow instructors are your first line to improvement. Once you have gotten as much as you can from them, then hire a pro coach. Good luck, and if you want, Margo and I would be happy to ride with you.

Veloce Raptor

Agree with all!

GT3 Nut

I understand and agree with ALL of what you are saying EXCEPT ON KEY THING:
But I am not sure if this was directed at me:
"I never understand the attitude amongst so many instructors that they don't have anything else to learn."

I NEVER said that. In fact if I felt I had nothing to learn, I would never have even posted ASKING for help. I am assuming you did not mean this towards me.

Anyway, I wasn't so much saying that you MUST/WILL stagnate when becoming an instructor. I was saying I FELT like I did.
Besides, I hate to bother any fellow instructor when they are busy with students as it is. I PERSONALLY don't care much for instructing (more on that another time) - with some exceptions - , but I don't mind riding with other instructors or experienced drivers, if I am not instructing that event. But, when someone is already giving much of their time to less experienced ones, I don't want them to miss out on their own time trying to help me.
Believe me, I know there are other instructors who are MUCH better/faster than I am. And even those who are not necessarily faster in actual lap times, they can very well be better and more efficient and smoother (even with lower HP cars - more often this is the case) (It is usually the guys with higher HP cars that are not as good - me included ). I just feel bad bothering them.
Thanks for the offer of riding with me. I may very well take you up on that. I should ask a few of the guys I know well to do ride alongs as well. Maybe we can all come out with improvements.

And as far as chassis set-up, I think I need some help with that FOR SURE! I am not the best at EXPLAINING to the set-up guy what my car is doing (except for the obvious anyway). The amount of roll in my car is crazy. I was saying I felt the car was very soft, but I didn't realize it was THAT soft until I saw the pictures.

Also the car was "hopping" when I was trying to get the power down in tighter turns (like turn 7 at Road Atlanta - which is very similar to Oak Tree at VIR). I couldn't apply enough power until the car was almost straight. Now I SEE why that was probably the case - the wheels were off the ground! DUH! But I didn't know how to communicate that until now seeing the pictures.

Earlier in this thread you asked me what times I was doing now. My best time in the cup was a mid 2:02 (I think 2:02.4). But that was when I had little seat time in the car. I have more time in the car now, but have not been to VIR with the cup when there was more open track. The best I had the last time - with a lot of traffic was a low 2:04 (with old Michelins). I believe I can do 2:00-2:01 now with more open track and my current seat time and ability (and new/newer Michelins or Dunlops). But that isn't good enough! And I am not sure I can do it lap after lap after lap.
See you soon.

ZAPmobile

Matt,

In no way was that comment directed at you. It is an ongoing problem I have with an attitude among some instructors. Remember, a lot of people read these posts, and while you were asking for help, there are so many who don't, who think they know it all.

None of us is Michael S., and therefore,all of us can always learn something. I don't know if you read my post a while back about a friend of ours in his 70s who at every event, worked on one corner each session to improve. He was one of the fastest racers I ever knew.

As far as your chassis set-up goes, you now have photographs that will help whoever works on your car for you to see what is going on and therefore dial it in for you.

The reason, I asked about your lap times earlier is to see if your goal of 1:58 was realistic at this time. When people are turning good lap times at DEs, it usually means that you have done it in traffic, as we rarely see open track at these events. In turn, this usually translates to better times during qualifying or in a race.

In most Porsche DE events, it is extremely rate that anyone cracks the two-minute barrier in a Cup car, so it will take a lot of hard work to do so.

So, keep at it, and good luck!

ZAPmobile

Matt,

Margo here...

Yes, we know instructing can be tiring, so, I understand where you are coming from when you don't want to bother a fellow instructor.

I'll throw something else out. I think a lot of us are also energized by instructing. I love seeing a student come along and "get it." It gives me energy, and I find that I can hop in and out of cars all day to teach, to observe and critique, or to learn. Sure, I may instantly crash that night, but I have one hell of a lot of fun.

My dad always said, "Ask. The worse they can say is, 'No,' in which case you are no worse off than you were before."

There are times when someone asks me to go out with him/her, and I need to regroup myself that session, but I always try to find a time that will work for both of us. So, have courage in asking others to ride with you. They will be flattered!

As instructors, we are really lucky, something that many don't realize, because we have the option of hopping in and out of cars to reinforce our own skills by teaching as well as to learn from others. It really is one of the great advantages of being an instructor.

TBC/Margo

P.S. If I keep posting, Arnie tells me I'll have to become an official member of Rennlist!

GT3 Nut

Thanks

38D

Matt - I think what you are describing is a DE phenomina, not an instructing one. When you start out in the novice run group, you get to a point where you are one of the fastest people in the run group. Then you start to think you are driving great and can go no faster...then you move up a group and find out you're not that good at all. You've reached the top of the DE ladder, so the next evolution is to race (or to spend more time doing races and/or test days). It is difficult to learn & push in a DE environment as there are typically only a few really fast people and rarely are they in a similar car.

As for coaching, hire a good one and have a data system & video going...this way you can continue to learn after the ride is over. If it were me, I would try to hire Randy Pobst for a day and not only have him coach you, but also setup your car (within the rules please ).

GT3 Nut

This makes a lot of sense. It is funny how you can be one of the fastest DE guys and go to a club race and be humbled. I feel like I am learning more doing the club races now, but I will be hiring a coach sometime soon and getting some honest feedback from some good instructors at de's as well. It can only help right. Having a guy to coach me on driving AND set-up will be great. I have gotten some PM's about coaching recommendations as well. I think I will be using one of them and/or Randy Pobst. I guess as I can afford to, i should get some coaching from a few of the pros. Maybe some "free" feedback from other experienced instructors at first and then try and get the best out of the pros.
Why does this stuff have to be so addictive AND expensive. why can't I just be happy driving slow in a slow car

as for rules, would adding a supercharger to a C3 car be wrong? THAt may be my only chance for a win.

TraqGear

Trudat! I felt like smacking some of those miatas around like flies! Some good drivers in those things. I did get a little payback the last race though.