RSchoeni

I enjoyed the SSolo thread "91Coupe" (Frank) started. A point regarding run group classification was raised in that thread, that I hadn't noticed: No racers in Super Solo. I don't understand why possessing a Competition License makes a driver ineligible for the open passing Super Solo group.

I'm in the the Solo group, which is restricted passing zones and point-bys. We have cars from Grand Am GT, Koni Challenge, ALMS GT2 etc. While the passing zones may "stretch " a bit, I've rarely been surprised by a late pass nor been uncomfortable with distances between cars.

I would have thunk that cars and drivers that are prepared to competition standards and turn the lap times that they do, would've been assigned in the higher skill group. I'm not advocating anything, just curious. What am I missing?
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bs

91COUPE

The super solo group with PBOC does allow passing in the turns, but the passing rules are a bit different. We have to share the track and establish position before attempting a pass. So if we were to enter turn 1 at sebring, and I had a nose on the inside of your door, I would only be allowed to maintain an inside position throughout the turn and you would only be allowed to maintain and outside postion throughout the completion of the turn. Unlike racing where I can take you on the inside and then track out during the turn, which in this case car to car contact would have a higher likely hood of happening.

In solo, you know that there cannot be a car next to you in the turns and you can therefore run the safe DE line around the track where one can track out and crush apexes as if no one was out there with you. In SS, we must keep an extra eye out for any other cars making a pass, and then share the real estate so that no contact is made. So, you take a racer that is used to no rules passing and put him/her in super solo and they might just make a racer move and make contact. That is why they shy racers away, contact in the DE ranks is unacceptable.

I hope that this helps you understand PBOC's reasoning, they just want to keep car to car contact to a minimum while offering solo/instructor drivers a higher paced group to run with, without having to race.

dave morris

Which racing group do you have in mind when you say "a racer that is used to no rules passing"? PCA certainly has rules for passing. Incidentally, contact in PCA racing is not "acceptable". You might have heard of the 13/13 rule?

91COUPE

I know that no club racing program promotes contact; I know about the 13/13 rule. I am not the originator of PBOC Super Solo; I am only a driver within that group, hence I follow their rules. If you would like to discuss the origination of said rules; please contact PBOC president Bob Varela and/or PBOC Super Solo director Bob Shuster. They are the guys that put PBOC Super Solo together and would have no problem explaining this rule further. As for me, I dont make the rules, but I sure as hell follow'em. Super Solo has been running solid for over a year now without any car to car contact and is considered to be one of the smoothest run groups withing PBOC. Personally I think they are on to something by not allowing racers in Super Solo, but that is only my opinion. Dave Morris, were you interested in running Super Solo?

PedroNole

Everybody has rules for passing. It's just that in racing, they are less definitive vs. DE (no passing in corners).

I think what they're getting at is the mentality/pre-disposition to be more aggressive in a certain situation of the racer and the mentality of a DE/Super Solo person are different. As such, they want to keep the groups separate.

Here's the only ***** in the armor that I see though... As a racer, I can't run in SuperSolo (open passing) but I can run with the Instructor group (point by in straights only). I think it's more of a problem to have racers in the Instructor group than the SuperSolo group. Imagine being behind a guy for a lap that isn't pointing you by and then finally getting to pass in a short straight area where everyone else is trying to pass too....

I'm sure there were guys that thought I was a bat out of hell and there were several who I thought were out for a Sunday drive. The racer in a fast car gets MAYBE 1-2 clear (not waiting more than 2 turns for a point by) laps in each 25 minute session while the other instructors probably think they're going to get rear ended.

Juha G

Maybe they don't want to get their asses kicked by guys/girls who know how to drive...? joke!!

See, Super Solo i.e. the best of the best. I would sure want to be able to drive in that group one day. But I don't really see how having race experience and a license would make it more unsafe... Then again it's just my opinion, I don't make the rules, I just follow them!

Actually, the whole concept in my opinion is very good! A select bunch of very good drivers that know each other and have run together for years; what could be a better setup for safe, yet fun and very fast driving? Just having a racing license/experience would not let you in in that group so why should it exclude you either...?

DanS911

Peter, you know that you and I agree on everything (except maybe what color the arrows should be) but I can tell you, as an event organizer that it is far easier to control an overly aggressive driver in a Red group with clear point bys in the straights only passing rules than it is in Super Solo.

Juha G

Hi Dan,

It was nice seeing you at Moroso again!

You mention an over agressive driver, I have a feeling that you wouldn't care what licenses or how good of a driver he/she was (even if it was mr. Schumacher himself), if he was being over aggressive, he wouldn't be allowed in the SS group!?
Isn't the whole concencus that the group consists of select people that everyone in the group trusts that can follow the rules and play it safe!?
Having or not having a racing license has nothing to do with that in my opinion.
And again, just my .02 I hope I'm not sticking my finger too deep into my nose...

PedroNole

I've found a couple of red ones for the next time I see you

I've modified my original post a bit. Of course I agree with you on controlling the overly aggressive driver but it was pretty d&%* frustrating trying to get a clean lap or two in the Instructor group.... and I wasn't overly aggressive One thing's for sure, you would have instructed them better on point bys!

Hey, what about a Super-Duper Solo run group

91COUPE

They already have that, its called the race group....