I have been having a conversation with another person. They believe that if a Green student is showing promise, it is alright for that student to be made a solo on the second day. They also go through an elaborate explanation that the green should have several DEs under their belts, etc.

If we have had a Green student that is that good, we move them to the next level -- Blue, to start teaching advance driving techniques.

I'm curious and wonder if you would mind commenting on how you feel - or what you would do with a decent Green student. It's your chance to be Chief Instructor!

Thank you.

 

Green students are in green for a good reason: they're novices without prior track experience and 3 or 4 sessions the first day will never qualify they for solo the second. The regions I instruct for will only allow yellow (the next level up after green) students to go solo prior to being advanced to the next level. In fact, we have a run group called "yellow sign-off" where students will go out solo but stay with the yellow run group. I've also found that students that advance too quickly through the run groups, without letting them have the necessary instruction, experience and seat time in each run group, will be doing the student and everyone else on the track with them, an injustice and may be setting everyone up for on track problems later. There are also instructor guidlines for the minimum about of DE days a student must stay in each run group, regardless of ability or promise.

 

I was allowed to go solo at both PCA and PBOC events on the second day of my first DEs with those groups. A person is either safe to be on the track with others in a DE environment or they are not. Some people like having an instructor in the car with them for as many sessions as possible. I would prefer being able to run solo and then if I see an instructor that is especially good, asking them if they would ride along with me and give pointers. This is much better position to be in than being saddled with any instructor, without regard to their skill level.

I think what is far worse than clearing new students to safely solo is people being elevated to instructor without proper seat time and testing.

 

I've been instructing for 23 years and I still value having someone with equal or more skills in the right seat from time to time. The rush to run solo is detrimental to learning the fundamentals of track driving yet so many are way too quick to try and get promoted. I see lots of white group (permanently solo'd) drivers hammering around the track making every novice mistake in the book. And without proper instruction, they will never really "get it". I guess that you know how I feel about signing a beginning green student off.

 

I was allowed to run solo on the 2nd day of my very first DE. If the person in question shows promise and isn't out there to just go as fast as they can, going solo is as much a learning tool in the application of what was told to that student as other tools in what you want that student to execute on track.

You have an instructor then ride with that student on their 2nd DE and sign them off if they've retained what they learned, for that weekend. Repeat as necessary. But I don't believe in the blanket sign off where just because a student is in white, red, blue or whatever, they are good to go forever. Having another voice in the car is beneficial.

 

I've never signed off a green group student and probably never will. If he's really good at the end of the first day, I'd probably recommend to the chief instructor a bump to the next run group.

 

When I first got started in DE, I was signed off to solo on the second day of the weekend. I still drive with an instructor from time to time, and depending on what group I am running with on a particular weekend, I still might need to do a check ride the first session.

I am going through comp school in a month, so I'll be doing two fully instructed DE's prior to that, just to make sure I'm on par. Our track just got repaved and slightly reconfigured and word is there is concern about people unfamiliar with the changes having nasty offs.

 

I was allowed to solo on my third DE day, and moved to blue on my fourth day, although that's just a random data point. In the general case, we will solo green group drivers when and if they are ready, and even then only if it will help that particular student. Typically, its a single session thing followed up by continued instruction until the student progresses to Blue.

 

Patrick, after organizing enough of these - I'm with you - but I'm no chief instructor!

I do know from organizing that this could pose a few other problems. Which you ask? Easy. On Sunday, some instructors have been known to want to leave DEs early (never ours!) and would be tempted to sign off a green student too early - just so they could leave.

And PTurbo - how right you are about folks wanting to become instructors right away. Unfortunately some DEs are short instructors. We have one group that when they have one of our green or blue registered, they've asked them to show the line to the newbies. This hurts - they come to me thinking they are now instructors. Hard to explain "seat time" to the over anxious. I also run Test & Tune day and I cannot believe how many want in that just don't realize it is a privilege one can act upon once they have proven their seat time...

Rethink my sentence structure? Possible but not while I'm writing... LOL

P.S. I do remember one person going from Green to Blue to White in one day - and they had one DE under their belt. They forgot to tell us on their application about all the years they use to race...

 

I am another driver who was allowed to solo on my second day at my first ever DE. My instructor mentioned that he saw that I was very open to feedback, had a good line, was not out to prove anything and was aware of the other cars around me. While I firmly believe that it's good to have a better driver ride with you at various events, as opposed to never having another instructor coach in the right-hand seat, I also think there is a great benefit in being able to take what you have learned and practice it by yourself.

 

It doesn't matter how much experience you have. I didn't make my bones in with the P club. When I signed up with PCA they asked how many events I had with "them". The answer was none. It didn't matter that I was an instructor with two other clubs and raced karts. They need to see for themselves if you can drive or not and not be an idiot on track.

 

It depends also on their familiarity with that specific track, corner stations and car. I have never seen a green student moved to solo their first weekend. If so they either weree not probably green to begin with or the club doing it is not giving the student what that student needs....good instruction.

I am an instructor and always in the hunt for a passenger instructor to improve my skills and catch bad habits

 

I think different regions will have different rules. In ours, green doesn't solo at all. Once you've been moved out of green, you go to blue with an instructor, and it takes two instructors to sign off on a solo.

I think this works well, and the Maverick Region's safety record confirms this. We never had an incident (to my knowledge) until abot 18 months ago when an Evo flipped.

It's not only going solo, it is also moving up in speed. Blue runs a bit faster than green, yellow runs faster than blue, then white, then red. Things happen a lot faster in the higher groups.

Also, someone who had a good first day, may not have a good second day, or may tire the second afternoon, or whatever. I'd rather let that person have at least 2 or 3 proven days under their belt before they're turned loose on their own. The added instructor time, particularly having more than one, can't hurt.

 

I agree Ed.
Hip Hip for our DE programs running safely

 

Green Solo? Is that like Jumbo Shrimp? Or a small giant? Or a scientific guess?

Green is for teaching fundamentals, i.e, there are corner workers and other cars, look up, don't jab at anything, etc. It is about awareness, of the car and the surroundings. Green isn't for practicing or perfecting a skill set, it is for developing one. I think it is a liability to the organizer to allow someone with no prior driving experience to be on the track alone after 3 or 4 sessions - which amounts to a total of ~1 hour of track time. If they are that good in 1 hour, push them to blue, because they are too fast for green - but that doesn't mean they are ready to go it alone... After they have enough skills, they should get time to work on skills without a passenger. And not before.

IMO, a green solo is an accident waiting to happen.

-td

Just to clarify, as I recall, the EVO was in green and had an instructor in the car at the time of the roll. It wasn't a result of "early solo promotion."