Entertaining Putnam Video
01-17-2008, 08:58 PM
#76
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Very cool, so your dad is Paul! I have an instructional tape of him driving the car around Watkins Glen.
The 77 was not my car and I don't know where that car is today. My car ran as 07 and Tureks was #7. I believe Greg's car was the one that won the championship (at least one year, my poster is packed away somewhere).
I wish my car made 265hp. Maybe (probably?) they were more creative and willing to run a higher strung motor then. My dyno sheet from the last rebuild at Kelly Moss shows a LOT less than that.
I've made some interesting connections with this car.
Mike Courtney was a really close friend of mine when we lived in Minneapolis. He came with me to pick up the car in WI when I first bought it. When we first unloaded the car at his shop, Leighton Reese (whose shop is right next to Mike's) came over and said something like "That's the damn car we couldn't beat anymore with the Pontiacs". (The Porsche's killed the GM's on fuel economy and IMSA eventually reduced the fuel capacity of the S2 to "equalize")
When we first moved to St. Louis, I had a couple SCCA corner workers come up and say "I remember that car". I also found out that it had been maintained or serviced between races at a shop in St. Louis. The weirdest connection was a time my wife was talking with her trainer at a gym about what she likes to do. She mentioned we drove a race car for fun. The conversation went something like
T:"Oh, what kind of race car?"
W:"A Porsche 944"
T:"Really, my dad used to race a 944"
W:"Oh really? SCCA or Porsche Club?"
T: "No, he ran something called IMSA Firehawk"
His dad was Bruce Frenzel, who apparently drove my #07 for at least some races.
We thought that was a pretty big "small world" experience.
Wow! Has this thread gone off the original topic, or what?
Joe
The 77 was not my car and I don't know where that car is today. My car ran as 07 and Tureks was #7. I believe Greg's car was the one that won the championship (at least one year, my poster is packed away somewhere).
I wish my car made 265hp. Maybe (probably?) they were more creative and willing to run a higher strung motor then. My dyno sheet from the last rebuild at Kelly Moss shows a LOT less than that.
I've made some interesting connections with this car.
Mike Courtney was a really close friend of mine when we lived in Minneapolis. He came with me to pick up the car in WI when I first bought it. When we first unloaded the car at his shop, Leighton Reese (whose shop is right next to Mike's) came over and said something like "That's the damn car we couldn't beat anymore with the Pontiacs". (The Porsche's killed the GM's on fuel economy and IMSA eventually reduced the fuel capacity of the S2 to "equalize")
When we first moved to St. Louis, I had a couple SCCA corner workers come up and say "I remember that car". I also found out that it had been maintained or serviced between races at a shop in St. Louis. The weirdest connection was a time my wife was talking with her trainer at a gym about what she likes to do. She mentioned we drove a race car for fun. The conversation went something like
T:"Oh, what kind of race car?"
W:"A Porsche 944"
T:"Really, my dad used to race a 944"
W:"Oh really? SCCA or Porsche Club?"
T: "No, he ran something called IMSA Firehawk"
His dad was Bruce Frenzel, who apparently drove my #07 for at least some races.
We thought that was a pretty big "small world" experience.
Wow! Has this thread gone off the original topic, or what?
Joe
01-17-2008, 09:14 PM
#77
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hahaha yeah very small world. Actually when we run events now we go for #77 or #07 since #77 is usually taken. He hated the car #7 at kelly moss david murry and nick ham both stuffed it into the wall so it was bent and cobbled together, but he didn't mind the #07. The instructional tapes are good but hes realy taking it easy in them, do you have the sebring one or the glen one? or are they on the same tape. I rember one hes actually just commentating and one hes driving (has orange gloves). The great tape we have is the incar of the final race of that season he was competing for the championship at the glen and he was realy realy pushing and put the car in the lead by like 45 seconds in an hour. Eventually when he got out of the car in the lead an inexperienced rookie at the time took over and destroyed the clutch taking him out of the race and the championship who's name happened to be david murry. Oh and about the HP at the time they were racing the camaro's which were worked over quite well and theres a chance that the s2's might have had some slightly different cams etc.
01-20-2008, 10:26 PM
#79
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My short opinion is that you were overly optimistic. I haved raced at Putnam a dozen times and rarely do you get a chance to pass a car you are racing against (not a backmarker) in turn 7. In fact I can't remember ever making a pass in that corner for position, but I have in every other corner on the track (IMO 6 isn't a corner).
Mark was too far to the right to get a pass to stick, if you had been able to stay on the pavement you would have had to almost stop to make the turn from that position and would have been re-passed going into 8, or sooner.
It seems that you would have been better off taking the normal line and going to the left of Mark's car and trying to get a better turn and exit speed since he compromised his entry. I bet if you had done this you would have been in good position going into 8 to make a pass.
Mark was too far to the right to get a pass to stick, if you had been able to stay on the pavement you would have had to almost stop to make the turn from that position and would have been re-passed going into 8, or sooner.
It seems that you would have been better off taking the normal line and going to the left of Mark's car and trying to get a better turn and exit speed since he compromised his entry. I bet if you had done this you would have been in good position going into 8 to make a pass.
01-20-2008, 11:46 PM
#80
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Hi Craig and Greg:
Thanks for your comments.
I wish I had data acq. in the car to prove it, but I still think my pass on the incident lap was virtually identical to the successful pass at about :50 of the short video. There's no doubt that Mark had left me less width of track on the incident lap.
There is no question in my mind that if I had been allowed to keep all 4 wheels on the track, I could have completed the corner in an identical fashion as the earlier pass.
As discussed earlier in this thread, Mark's car comes off the corners MUCH better than mine. The only way I was going to pass him was an outbraking pass. Short of Mark missing a shift or getting WAY out of shape, there's no way I would be able to get enough of a better run out of a corner to beat him to the next corner.
When I compare the lap 1 pass, and the other pass, I don't think I came from any farther back than the incident lap. Check out the closing rate on the lap 1 pass, the closure rate is so fast, it also looks "banzai", yet I was able to make the corner while still leaving a full car width for Mark to use to the outside.
IMO, the difference between the two other laps and the incident lap is that Mark failed to allow me room to coexist on the incident lap. (I'm talking about the lane change move that forced me to the grass now). Once I was in the grass, I have no idea why he turned into the corner anyway seeing how fault or not, an impact would occur. The only logical explanation for that move that I can think of is it was just an hones mistake. Mark's a wizard, but not a god and it's possible he can occasionally make a mistake.
I failed to successfully complete the pass. No doubt about it. There's also no doubt that I have an extreme bias, and I acknowledge that. IMO, the biggest mistake I made was thinking that with just a couple laps to the end that a very serious competitor would allow the same degree of racing room he did earlier in the race.
Greg, while I've only raced at Putnam 3 times and run only a couple DE weekends there, I disagree with your assesment of T7 NOT being a good passing spot. I'm pretty sure I've made more passes there than in any other spot on the track. Perhaps the difference in our experience is that my car is particularly good under braking and doesn't have a whole lot of torque to accelerate out of the corners.
Thanks for reading,
Joe
Thanks for your comments.
I wish I had data acq. in the car to prove it, but I still think my pass on the incident lap was virtually identical to the successful pass at about :50 of the short video. There's no doubt that Mark had left me less width of track on the incident lap.
There is no question in my mind that if I had been allowed to keep all 4 wheels on the track, I could have completed the corner in an identical fashion as the earlier pass.
As discussed earlier in this thread, Mark's car comes off the corners MUCH better than mine. The only way I was going to pass him was an outbraking pass. Short of Mark missing a shift or getting WAY out of shape, there's no way I would be able to get enough of a better run out of a corner to beat him to the next corner.
When I compare the lap 1 pass, and the other pass, I don't think I came from any farther back than the incident lap. Check out the closing rate on the lap 1 pass, the closure rate is so fast, it also looks "banzai", yet I was able to make the corner while still leaving a full car width for Mark to use to the outside.
IMO, the difference between the two other laps and the incident lap is that Mark failed to allow me room to coexist on the incident lap. (I'm talking about the lane change move that forced me to the grass now). Once I was in the grass, I have no idea why he turned into the corner anyway seeing how fault or not, an impact would occur. The only logical explanation for that move that I can think of is it was just an hones mistake. Mark's a wizard, but not a god and it's possible he can occasionally make a mistake.
I failed to successfully complete the pass. No doubt about it. There's also no doubt that I have an extreme bias, and I acknowledge that. IMO, the biggest mistake I made was thinking that with just a couple laps to the end that a very serious competitor would allow the same degree of racing room he did earlier in the race.
Greg, while I've only raced at Putnam 3 times and run only a couple DE weekends there, I disagree with your assesment of T7 NOT being a good passing spot. I'm pretty sure I've made more passes there than in any other spot on the track. Perhaps the difference in our experience is that my car is particularly good under braking and doesn't have a whole lot of torque to accelerate out of the corners.
Thanks for reading,
Joe
