Harness mount for 997
12-06-2007, 08:41 PM
#1
The Penguin King
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Harness mount for 997
I've done the search, & read what I could from past posts. I'm looking for opinions/advice on installing a harness mount in a 997S. The car is a daily driver, so I would want a bolt in that is easily removable. Anyone have experience that they can share?
12-06-2007, 09:00 PM
#3
The Penguin King
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Not exactly sure what you mean, but to be clear, what I want to do is install six point harnesses for DE events. I don't intend to race this car. I figure the harness will help me stay put, and provide better protection than a lap/shoulder belt. Also, to be clear, I've got GT3 seats installed already, so the seats are designed to take a harness.
12-06-2007, 09:18 PM
#4
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i just have never agreed with harness bars ... i know your dilema... i have been there ... i understand what you are asking but just dont know if there is substitute for a roll bar.. and harness... i saw a guy on a warm up lap drop a wheel and roll his car... running 50% .. i just hate to see good folks get hurt ..
if it wasnt for his bar im thinking good chance he wouldnt have walked away... de can be like racing but with point byes..
i wish there was easy way to get rollover protection and still use back seat area
if it wasnt for his bar im thinking good chance he wouldnt have walked away... de can be like racing but with point byes..
i wish there was easy way to get rollover protection and still use back seat area
12-06-2007, 09:58 PM
#5
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The Porsche roll bar has four bolts that hold it in. the only pain the the butt is you have to pull the front seats to put it in. If you are going to use 5 or 6 point belts you are most likely will replace the seats too. This is the slippery slope of Tracking the car one thing leads to another.
12-06-2007, 10:12 PM
#6
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If your going to use a harness bar, use this system at bare minimum.
http://www.ebsracing.com/item.wws?mf...ntid=ebsracing
Breykrause makes good stuff. See a rennlist sponsor.
http://www.ebsracing.com/item.wws?mf...ntid=ebsracing
Breykrause makes good stuff. See a rennlist sponsor.
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12-06-2007, 10:30 PM
#8
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Mike -
I would also check with the groups that you do events with before installing a bar. I used a Brey-Krause bar during a DE in Nov. It was a huge improvement over the shoulder strap. However, I had several instructors tell me that they wouldn't ride with someone using a bar. Fortunately, I'm in a solo group so that didn't matter that weekend, but it made me aware of an issue that I was not aware of when I purchased the bar.
The instructors' (that I talked to) concern was slipping thru the belts in a crash. I used kind of a rigged system to keep that from happening, but I can see how an instructor might balk with a guy they had never run with before. Also, some groups like PCA run a tighter ship regarding inspection than other groups, so you would want to know the organizers' stance on bars when you were signing up.
I would also check with the groups that you do events with before installing a bar. I used a Brey-Krause bar during a DE in Nov. It was a huge improvement over the shoulder strap. However, I had several instructors tell me that they wouldn't ride with someone using a bar. Fortunately, I'm in a solo group so that didn't matter that weekend, but it made me aware of an issue that I was not aware of when I purchased the bar.
The instructors' (that I talked to) concern was slipping thru the belts in a crash. I used kind of a rigged system to keep that from happening, but I can see how an instructor might balk with a guy they had never run with before. Also, some groups like PCA run a tighter ship regarding inspection than other groups, so you would want to know the organizers' stance on bars when you were signing up.
12-06-2007, 10:42 PM
#9
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12-06-2007, 10:53 PM
#10
The Penguin King
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I appreciate everyone's comments, but I'm really not trying to open up a debate on whether or not to run a harness mount system. I think I understand that a roll cage is safer than a harness mount, and a welded cage safer yet.
I will check to make sure a harness bar is acceptable. I do know that four point harnesses are not allowed, and that the seats must be designed for a harness (ie factory made holes for the shoulder and sub belts). My seats are designed for that, so provided the harness mount is allowed, the six point belt will be also.
Thanks for the BK comment. Anyone else with experience putting this type of system in?
12-06-2007, 11:15 PM
#11
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mglobe... sorry i was just kidding you, i saw that posted the other day .. i dont think many cages would have survied that impat eithway... i have seen the bk system fairly easy install ..
good luck with your choice .. like i said earlier i know the delima you are in... and becaomes a pain in the"a" ...
didnt mean to offend or make light of it
good luck with your choice .. like i said earlier i know the delima you are in... and becaomes a pain in the"a" ...
didnt mean to offend or make light of it
12-06-2007, 11:25 PM
#12
The Penguin King
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mglobe... sorry i was just kidding you, i saw that posted the other day .. i dont think many cages would have survied that impat eithway... i have seen the bk system fairly easy install ..
good luck with your choice .. like i said earlier i know the delima you are in... and becaomes a pain in the"a" ...
didnt mean to offend or make light of it
good luck with your choice .. like i said earlier i know the delima you are in... and becaomes a pain in the"a" ...
didnt mean to offend or make light of it
Actually I went and did some PCA reading, and PCA does discourage the use of harnesses with a harness mount instead of a cage. The argument is that in the case of a roll-over, a harness keeps you upright, whereas with a lap shoulder belt system, you can slide down, and perhaps not have the roof come down on you. I'm still struggling with the shoulder/lap system being safer in spite of that possibility, but I'm no expert on vehicle safety.
There really is only one good solution -- dedicated track car.
12-07-2007, 08:14 AM
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Harness Bar for DE
Ok,
To more directly answer your question. You make your own decisions on safetey but I installed a Breykrause truss/harness bar setup in my 996. Worked very well. Very clean install that did require seat removal and a piece of trim at the rear of the package shelf (it pulled right out no sweat...not even clips it was foam).
It was nice because it left the factory belts in place so if someone balked they could wear the factory street belts. Hey if you were so inclined you could wear both. I ran Maverick PCA, LoneStar PCA, NASA, COMMA at Hallett, MSR and TMS events also. No one ever told me not to use it but I was aware of people comments about it. I would just tuck the harness belts behind the seat for everyday driving.
I bought with the intention of taking in an out for events but then ultimately realized it was just to much of a pain the the butt to do that. I just left it in the car. It was painted black against my black interior and was fine. Installation with 2-3 handtools if you do not have a German Shepherd helping (I use that term loosely) is about 45 minutes either way.
The backseat is then totally useless though as you cannot acess the rear of the car at all (if that matters to you).
It was reasonable priced, had good instructions, all the proper quality bits and lined up perfectly. Absolutely no drilling cutting nothing. All stock points and hook-up.
Hope that helps... use it in good health. You will be less tired as you will not use your hand pressed against the wheel and your knee against the sidewall and floorboard to hold yourself still. If you are thinking it will make your DE time more comfortable by holding you planted in the seat. You are right in my experience.
To more directly answer your question. You make your own decisions on safetey but I installed a Breykrause truss/harness bar setup in my 996. Worked very well. Very clean install that did require seat removal and a piece of trim at the rear of the package shelf (it pulled right out no sweat...not even clips it was foam).
It was nice because it left the factory belts in place so if someone balked they could wear the factory street belts. Hey if you were so inclined you could wear both. I ran Maverick PCA, LoneStar PCA, NASA, COMMA at Hallett, MSR and TMS events also. No one ever told me not to use it but I was aware of people comments about it. I would just tuck the harness belts behind the seat for everyday driving.
I bought with the intention of taking in an out for events but then ultimately realized it was just to much of a pain the the butt to do that. I just left it in the car. It was painted black against my black interior and was fine. Installation with 2-3 handtools if you do not have a German Shepherd helping (I use that term loosely) is about 45 minutes either way.
The backseat is then totally useless though as you cannot acess the rear of the car at all (if that matters to you).
It was reasonable priced, had good instructions, all the proper quality bits and lined up perfectly. Absolutely no drilling cutting nothing. All stock points and hook-up.
Hope that helps... use it in good health. You will be less tired as you will not use your hand pressed against the wheel and your knee against the sidewall and floorboard to hold yourself still. If you are thinking it will make your DE time more comfortable by holding you planted in the seat. You are right in my experience.