I have stated this opinion a number of times here, but I am always willing to offer my free advice (and it is worth every penny you pay) for those with a serious interest.

A lot of folks here will strongly advocate a controlled approach with DE's and small steps up. IMO, you can go as quickly as you want. If you want a fast track, then first make sure you are reasonably comfortable with the racing environment. If you are not there now, just based on your outlook, then do a pro school like Skippy. Follow that with an SCCA superschool and you are ready to go. Rent an SRF or other spec car and test yourself against good drivers in equal equipment. Prepare to run at the back, but if you control your ego and keep chasing the guys and gals who are a couple seconds faster, you will get good very fast.

The approach of lots of DEs produce both the best and worst race students in licensing schools. You can progress as quickly as you want.

 

Agree with Mark, here. Again!

My second track day ever was an SCCA licensing school. Way back when (1983 in my case) there weren't DE's 24/7, so you did what Mark suggested--pro school or twiddle around at the back and learn. I did have the benefit of lots of crewing and flagging experience, so I kinda knew what was expected.

 

Us old guys have to stick together. Similar to you, my first ever day on a real track was licensing school on slicks. A few AutoX's before that.

 

If you want to race, go out, get a licence and go racing. If you feel you need more tuition, get some paid tuition from a professional.

With any luck, the people who you go to for you racing licence will take you through the course using single seaters, which are easier to driver on track than street cars.

There are very few skilled race drivers and a great many really bad race drivers. Quite a proportion of the skilled race drivers get bored driving on the race track (Walter Röhrl being one) and go off and drive in WRC events (where Walter came from), or do development work, or teach nearly good drivers to be very nearly good drivers (yes F1 drivers need coaching). Which is good because it makes it easier to look good.

The only way to find out if you have what it takes to race, is to go aout and race. Racers come in all shapes and sizes, they can be kids or old guys, babes or blokes. JFDI.

Don't get side tracked by DE events.

R+C

 

Yes we do.....DEs? Racing School? Most weren't invented yet (the guys owning running them today were racing!), so it was SCCA school, license, Regionals, Nationals.....at your own pace.

 

It all depends on you and what you want to invest into this hobby / sport. I had no desire to rush into racing or instruction, I just wanted to learn to safely drive my car quickly around the track, learn vehicle dynamics, etc. In my 3rd year of doing this I was moved to the most advanced group and was asked to become an instructor. I passed on the invite as I was still learning nuances and wanted to focus on that before starting to instruct others. I also did one competitive event that year (One Lap) and at that point could have moved to club racing. I didn't -- I was still learning too much and didn't want to get into the whole trailer thing and time commitment -- I have 2 kids (1 is now at college -- so club racing is getting closer).

Learning in this environment is such that you spike, then plateau, then you might spike again, but the spike is much lower than the first. And so on... Your first laps at Lime Rock might be 1:30 and you might be in that range for a while until you suddenly have a 1:20, and stay there for a while. Once you get to say 1:05, it can take a long time to see 1:04. Approach the 1 minute lap and it can a year of trying different things to find any improvement.

Based on all of this, it might be a while before you the driver are comfortable in a competitive situation. There are regular DEs that are very safe and structured -- where run groups are separated out so people of similar skill and lap times are running together. Then there are "all advanced" DEs where you will only have White and Black (most advanced) along with Instructors. The last "Cups & Saucers" we had at Watkins Glen was a little too "rough" for many of the White drivers that were there -- I know because I was in the garage near a few of them and they decided not to even go out onto the track due to the frenzy. Safety was not compromised, but the perceived margin of safety for Black / Red (club racer or not) and somebody that just went into White might be very different. One example of the frenzy is having 3 cars in a line entering the front straight. Car 1 is slower than 2, which is slower than 3 (me). Car 1 gives a point to 2 and 3, and car 2 gives a point to 3. We are 3-wide but staggered at the start/finish at different speeds (car 3 at 130 MPH). So 3 wide entering the braking zone and car 3 and 2 take off-line entries and the result is 3, 2, 1 exiting the turn -- it was beautiful ballet, but something that could take even a very talented student a few years to get used to. It's not easy knowing exactly what you and your car can and will do, but then add in other drivers and cars... My goal was to get to the point where I had confidence in myself, then to have confidence in a race-like setting (ie: Advanced DEs, combined regular DE sessions with Black and Red, etc.).

Don't rush yourself, and I'd suggest you not go down the path of trying to pre-determine how long it will take you to 1) Make it into advanced, 2) be qualified for Club Racing, 3) win the lotto, etc. -- I think you see my point

Take it one step at a time. If resources of time and money are not an issue, then there are so many different things you can do -- DE car and trailer, many DEs, racing schools, professional coaches, etc.

 

Thanks guys, I am signing up for the next Skip Barber racing program.

Then, I will see where to go from there....

 

I only have one problem with that - me. We had someone do something very simliar to what you suggest in a race that I was in recently and he wasn't ready. He wasn't ready because he hadn't developed the right level of awareness even though he passed the test. Guess what he did? Turned in on an experienced racer who he should have seen easily. And, scared the hell out of a bunch of us in a number of different situations. I don't want to share the track with guys who aren't ready. Most guys who do a skippy school and then a one day comp school for their license simply aren't ready to be on the track and I don't want them there for the reason I cited above.

 

One person who took a certain path does not make that a bad path. For example:
I had a comp school student who did a bunch of DEs, was quick and had what appeared to be good track awareness. When he got in a race situation, he drove to his former limit, but there were cars around him and he was overwhelmed and was dangerous. He was not ready to be licensed. Now just because one person had that result does not make the process bad.

A couple of other points, however. I did not suggest Skippy and a one day comp school - I suggested Skippy and a full SCCA school program which is two days, with a total of 10-14 hours (I forget) in a car. Almost all of that is in race conditions. SCCA does offer superschools, which I suggested, and that is two weekend days plus some Friday time for classroom. In SCCA, that gets you a Regional license only. Anyone running SCCA Regionals should understand that there are n00bs that need to be watched. Additionally, SCCA requires people in their first races to carry a novice X on the car so others can watch out. That said, there are some ways to shortcut that process and I do not agree with them, and that is not the process I suggested.

If you had someone that unaware with their SCCA license, then you should have said something to the Chief Steward and the licensing folks should have been told as well, to improve their licensing evaluations. Even with that, I have seen bad (unaware) drivers in SCCA - even at National level, PCA, POC and so-called pro license holders. No one has a perfect system.

 

Don't rely only only on Skippy. They have a good driving school and give you a very little exposure to race conditions. That is why I suggest also doing the SCCA schools (or the superschool). That will provide you with adequate time in race conditions. Folks who jump from Skippy or other schools that offer limited time in race conditions, are often over their heads in the first few events. I am biased, but I feel that the SCCA schools are the best experience to get ready to go racing.

 

Here is what I did, and I urge you to take this as a data point, not as gospel:

I started in DE last year and did a couple of events, enough to convince me of two things: (1) I was totally hooked and (2) a high powered car (in my case a Ferrari) was not the car to drive on the track as a rookie. This year, I did every event I could, and managed to put together about 30 track days. Most of them were with instructors, and while I was signed off to solo with most groups, I took advantage of instruction whenever possible. I also took advantage of opportunities to solo in order to practice the skills I had learned with instructors. Best of all was the ability to alternate instructed and solo events at the same track, which I was able to do on several occasions.

A note on Skippy School. I did Skippy School in March at Homestead. It was valuable, but in retrospect I wish I had waited until I had more experience. I think the racing school is best for those who have the basic driving skills down, which I did not in March.

By the end of the summer I was running in upper intermediate or open track with most groups although, as noted above, I made sure to get instruction whenever possible. I recently ran four events at Watkins Glen over five weeks, alternating instructed and solo groups. Ultimately, I was able to be observed for my NASA competition license and race last weekend at the Glen.

I had to make a lot of compromises to be able to drive as much as I did this year, and I don't expect to be able to do it again anytime soon. But I thought it was important to get concentrated seat time at the outset to get over the first hump of the learning curve. I certainly don't think I could have progressed as I have otherwise.

Also, as soon as I decided that a high-hp car was not good for learning, I started researching alternatives. I am very happy with my choice of a normally aspirated 944, which is a blast for both DE and racing. If you want to race and are OK with a lower powered car, getting in the car early can be great. If you want to race a high-hp car it might be better to wait.

As others have said, there is no one path for everyone. I gather that it is unusual to go from novice to racing in one season, although it would not have happened if my instructors didn't think I could move up. As far as age goes, I am over 50 and not athletic. I just wish I started this years ago.

Best of luck, and don't let anything stop you.

 

There are two way into racing.

Fast and Slow

1) Fast. SCCA Comp license is easy to get in that you do two "racing schools" and they give you a license. I believe you need to complete 4 races without incident, but that is all. You don't need ANY on track experience, but need access to a race prepared car. You can make this process even faster with Skip baber type schools although check to see which ones count with SCCA.

Pros= You can be race licenses in SCCA in a few months and SCCA regional license gets you into PCA, NASA and any racing org by provisional

Cons = Little to no driver training or skill development. You will know the flag and probably how to start a race and probably not crash in the first race. However you will spend all yourt time just trying to figure this track driving out.


2) Slow - Start by doing varius DE events. These will teach you the basis of driving on race track. They will not teach racing, but you will have lots of time to learn driving skills and the time practice them at length. Instructors will ride with you to help refine your skills. As you learn you move up the groups and as you get faster and more skilled you can apply for competition school.

Pros= You will have the basics of driving down once you start racing. This means in the comp school you can focus on the racing aspects an not basic driving. Also in your first races you will be a much more competant driver. You will still need to learn "racing", but driving part will be down. You need to learn to skate before you play hockey.

Cons = Time. It will take time to learn the driving basics and it can seem like it takes forever.

I started track driving my late 20's. It took me about 3 year of DE time before I felt ready for racing. I did not do that many DE (only about 15-16) days, but over that time I learned alot and became comfortable on a race track at speed and comfortable with cars around me. It made my first race relativly easy to manage since it was much like what I had done before, but now you could be more aggresive when making passes. I have seen a few drivers take the Fast route over the years and nearly all are very very slow for 2-3 years. I believe that it takes time to learn to drive well on a track and fast tracking to a Comp License may get you in a "race car" faster, but cannot replace the time needed to develop driving skills. I believe you can develop driving skills faster in DE than in a race group since there expectation in DE is learning. In race group is hard to find people to help with the basics.

 

In racing, you don't have the instructor reminding you to brake, turn in etc and/or most importantly, to remember to look in your mirrors.

 

Jumping in here late - but I agree with Mark & Ken - get your liscense and race. If you don't belong - you'll know it, and if you're clueless, someone will tell you (forcefully, somtimes).

Alan