Given average talent and average skills, how many laps does it take a beginner/intermediate driver to master a track to the point where he/she is driving subconsciously? DE line, racing line, rain line, offline.

Perhaps the answer maybe "it depends", but I'm intrigued if there is an observed benchmark.

Thanks...

 

Three.

Two if they've had a lot of coffee and paid attention in the driver's meeting.

Honestly, everytime i think i have the "subconscious" thing down, i get surprised by something i thought i already knew.

I do okay by my second day at a particular track. Of course, there's still a lot to learn, but at least i can drive the track by memory at that point.

 

There's a number for every driver. It's hard to say what average is. I've been driving for seven years and I still learn something new every month when I go out (usually to the same, 'simple' 9-turn track).

 

I think a better question is how long does it take the average driver to master the SKILLS it takes to drive any course "subconsciously." Once you have a grasp of the tools, you should be able to implement that into any track you run. Of course, this comes from someone who brakes early and has to roll a full car length to turn in...

-td

 

It usually takes a green driver the entire first day to get things down well enough. So to answer your question, about 40 laps +/-

 

For me, the best way to learn a track quickly is to walk the track before you drive the track. Recently I did two circuits on foot around a track. I have raced and circulated this track many times in race cars and I am still amazed at how much detail you can learn about the track. Even at a slow speed in a car you cannot pick up all the small and critical details. By walking you will notice things like: How the suface changes, can you use the verge?, are there small paint markings on the track that can identify braking points and also where the track has been changed by the owners since your last visit.

When you start driving a track it is my belief that you should immediately identify braking spots for each corner (if required of course). Never just brake when it feels right - always use and trust your brake markers. Read the last sentence again.

When in the learing phase, make sure that each lap is quicker than the previous lap. This would mean that you start of very slow and then gradually speed up. By following this technique you will never "be over the top" or suffer from a surge of adrenaline overload. I have no respect for drivers that spin their cars on the first lap of a new circuit. Once you know the circuit then you can move away from the principle of going quicker each lap - we all have our limits.

Due to sensory overload on our system it is better to do three 10 lap sessions as opposed to one 30 lap session. Use the time between sessions to think about where you brake, where you change gear and what you saw while on the track. Think about improvements and if you have a data logger use it.

To answer your question of how long it takes an medium skilled driver to learn a track to the point of driving unconciously the answer is that it depends enirely on the innate skill and ability to learn skills of the driver. Each will be different.

 

I think it depends on the size of the track. A small track like Lime Rock, 2 laps. A bigger track like Sebring, maybe 3-4. The Nurburgring...alot more! Preperation can also make a big difference. When I went to Road America for the first time, I learned the track basically immediately, since I had done so many virtual laps in Forza.

 

How many laps does it take an average student to MASTER the line??

How about 30?? or maybe 300...

I think it would take Patrick Long at least 3 laps to MASTER the line and even then I'll bet he gets better as he gets more laps in....Be serious none of us are that good (well except for me... )

I ran 2 new tracks so far this year, Roebling Road and Mid Ohio. At RR which is a short track it probably took me 2 sessions to get a good feel for it, the first one with an instructor. At Mid Ohio it took me the first day with a very good instructor to get a good feel for all the nuances of the track.

Maybe I'm just slow....

 

There are 2 large variables at play here. The drivers skills/learning potential and the complexity of the track. Asses and assign a value to each and calculate. Then toss the paper, get in the car and drive the track until you have a real answer, for that driver and that track. Change driver or track and repeat.

 

Sheesh Colin, you must kidding or I just truly suck (maybe both).. I have put down 100's of laps at Limerock and in no way do I feel I have it "Mastered" in dry and wet.. I may never feel that way actually.

 

How many laps to master a track? My answer: NEVER.

In the case of Lime Rock -- unless you can drive it like Mark Donohue did, you ain't mastered nuthin'

Personally, if I think I've mastered a track, I'm lying to myself. Believing there is more to be had in a given track or in a given corner of a given track makes me want to push myself more. (And given my pace, I know there's alot more to be had out there...)

-Z-man.

 

Here's my experience...

I have 10 DE days at the Glen (Man do I love that place) and estimate a total of ~ 400 laps most of them instructed and recently solo.

I fee quite comfortable getting around the track without holding anyone ( I do give quick point bys), taking offline passes and experimenting with different lines in some turns (5, 6 and 9 come to mind). Yet I'm not at a point where I'm driving "subconciously". It's total concentration, each second, and every input. Heck I'm embarrassed to admit that even after 400 laps I still need to be consciously, and intently, focused on my driving and traffic as hard as I possibly can.

So 'am I without any talent or is it a confidence thing with noob solos before one can drive with a more relaxed state of mind?

 

To drive at the top of your game takes concentration, no matter how talented/experienced you are.

You may get to the point where you're concentrating very hard on your opposite lock/power slide/left foot braking technique (think the recent Walter Rhol video someone posted), but you're passing slower cars "subconsciously"...

I think, the real question is: what is the groups’ definition of “subconscious driving”?

Driving the line consistently? Or driving the line with your eyes closed?

Driving 10/10ths with a cup of coffee in one hand and a cell phone in the other? Or being able to safely negotiate and handle emergency maneuvers out on the track?

 

IMO, until you are in the fastest run groups (trying to keep up with the folks with years and years of driving experience) you should be concentrating every lap, every turn, every straight (to set up turns) to build your fundamentals and etch things in memory. What you concentrate on though can be just as important as when. You can concentrate on the cones, the track in/out, the corner workers, the car in front of you, your tach, etc. But, in my experience, if I focus too much on the "driving" (i.e., brake here, turn here) I don't pay enough attentoin to my inputs (i.e., backside, eyes, ears, hands and feet) and I don't get any better - I just go around the track.

The more I integrate what my body is saying the car is doing and what I intend the car to do, the better/faster I get. I haven't experienced the zen of racing - where everything slows down and you're in perfect harmony with the car and track. But, I'm only going 7-8/10ths because it is DE and not a race. Besides, when things slow down for me, it usually means I'm spinning

-td

 

That is a question that is impossible to answer. Imagine 2 children at 12 months, when did the first begin to walk, when WILL the 2nd begin? Everyone gets into the zone at different points in their learning curve.