84_Carrera

Ok, a buddy of mine & I are trying to coordinate being at the same DE day in order to schedule a "gentleman's wager" on the V being the predominant platform for road courses. I do believe he thinks he's Andy Pilgrim or something.

Anyway, after ribbing him about the V boys not getting past Randy Pobst recently, he's suggesting a "settle it on the track" day.

Now before you guys go off, this is again a friendly "duel", and only for dinner. Obviously neither one of us is about to wreck a car over a meal. What we are looking to do is time the laps we're out, and regardless of traffic, get an average of our best 5 laps each over the day. If we can hook up a rental GPS / lap timer (if such a thing exists at a reasonable cost) or via old-school stopwatches w/ an observer on the ground. We will both be running street tires, no power adders. Both have basic mods of some kind (I believe he's running larger brakes, for example).

So, here's the scoop:

Mine's an '84 Cab, 77k miles, putting between 198-204hp to the wheels depending on fuel, Weltmeister chip, 16x6 / 16x8 wheels w/Kumho MX tires (205's / 225's). I am targeting an unmuffled track date at Lime Rock, so I can save the weight of the M&K muffler, & just run the Fabspeed pre-muffler & muffler bypass tip. I have recently converted to Elephant Racing Poly-Bronzes all around, new Bilstein HDs / Sports, 22/29 hollow t-bars, turbo tie rods. Suspension's in good shape. Car's low... just a tweak under Euro height actually, and I may try to bump that up a bit prior to running. I've got new drilled Zimmermans all around, new pads, braided hoses. I'll be flushing the brakes prior to going as well (I normally use a synth DOT3/4, but am open to suggestions). I have a bolt-in roll bar. AC has been completely removed. I'm just over 200lb, he's (no offense) quite a bit larger than that.

I have 2 rained-soaked track days with the 911 since owning - 1 Lime Rock, 1 NHIS. Neither one was fast, neither one was fun, and both were well before replacing the dead suspension. So, I consider this a virgin situation & will be treating as such. I have about a dozen DE days (LRP, NHIS, WG, Summit, Atlanta, Blackhawk) & half a dozen autocrosses under the belt since 2000 or so.

Obviously this is going to be a momentum situation, as he's running >400hp, but his car's also a lot heavier than mine.

Does anyone have any thoughts / suggestions / tips? I have never timed my laps at any track, so I have nothing else to offer there, except that I was running a 419whp supercharged FWD Taurus SHO (member of the "Smoking Taurus Club" here).

Thanks all for your time. I'll be sure to let y'all know how great his dinner tastes.

Jaws911

38D

Ok, here is the scoop -- neither you nor your buddy has enough experience to really be able to prove anything. 12 track days in 7 years is novice range. It will all come down to who is the better driver, and will have nothing to do with the cars. If by chance you are both equal drivers, a slightly prep'd 400hp CTS-V should eat a slightly prep'd '84 carerra for lunch.

Now, your buddy does realize that his CTS-V shares exactly zero parts with the race version? The race car is a full tube frame chassis that is not even built by Caddy for petes sake. At least the carerra was raced back in the day.

Oh...and there are no unmuffled track days at LRP.

Gary R.

Please do it at the CVR DE on 8/24! I can just see it now... Roger F. in the passenger seat of the CTS, Dave B. in the 84... the sound of the Yellow group flag waving in the breeze.

bobt993

84_Carrera

Colin -
(insert big grin here), absolutely we understand we're not "proving" anything, it's an excuse to take us back to the track more than anything & is fodder for laughter over a beer after.

As for your quoted statement, I've been to one already, and there were at least 2 this year there, 1 done, 1 pending. I never said it was with PCA.

The last unmuffled I was at was during the ALMS week last year. The Liddell 911 was doing sponsor ride-alongs in between our sessions. Was funny watching the primped sponsors getting out & giggling about the intentional squirreliness coming out of Big Bend... each & every time.

doc2s

there are unmuffled events. FCA and some SCDA events come o mind. the FCA event was amazing. 140min of track time per day and it's not limited to ferrari's.

RSRRacer

Can I drove your 911? Then we can talk

38D

Th only events that I knew of that are unmuffled were the pro races (ALMS, Grand AM) and a few SCCA regional level races. If FCA gets a day, I may just have to try and sign up for that event!

I totally get that you and you friend are smack talking and having fun. We were all novices once too. But if you really want to compare cars, joinly hire someone for the day -- you'll get some good instruction, and can ask them for some hot laps to compare times.

doc2s

SCDA has an unmuffled day on sept 4.

TheOtherEric

+1 on Colin's comments. You're both still novices, so this won't prove anything at all about the cars. Sorry, but that's probably not what you wanted to hear. /shrug

84_Carrera

Well, actually (and perhaps this didn't come across well), I was hoping for some 911-specific + Lime Rock-specific info to maximize effectiveness.

And yes, it's SCDA I tend to run with here in New England, Panoz (now Barber) at R/A, & BSR for Summit. I spoke with Ian's dad Bill the 1st time I was on the track with the 911 (rained significantly). He was behind me with a student, saw how difficult a time I was having. He asked how many times I'd spun, I told him none. He told me to keep doing what I was doing.

That was a nutty day, watching WRXs slide around. My buddy lost his AE GTI a couple of times too.

450knotOffice

I'll throw a prediction out there:

The CTS-V, mostly due to it's significantly better power to weight ratio, will run better lap times than the '84 Carrera. I think the Cad will have a significant speed advantage on the straights that'll nullify the possibly better handling of the Carrera.

(Hey, I love my '84!)

Van

I had a memorable experience several years back. I was an intermediate with my 944 turbo S, went to an "advanced DE" at Lime Rock and spent the day lapping a fellow driving a yellow 911 cab.

After lunch I go out for a session, and before I know it, this yellow cab is glued to my bumper, then passes without a signal, never to be seen again! I inquire with the organizers about what happened and here was the answer: "Oh, Derek Bell drove his student's car to show him what it’s capable of."

Driver ability is an immense factor here.

I suggest you try staging together so you can actually follow and pass each other – that will give you a good idea who’s faster, then you can go out and split dinner.

450knotOffice

Yup. Driver ability is the single biggest factor (usually). I've seen Jack Olsen, an awesome driver, hound and then pass Vipers and Z06's at Willow Springs raceway (which is a horsepower track) while he was driving bone stock mid 80's Carreras with students in the passenger seat .

However, both of these two guys are novices, so one driver having more talent than the other probably won't be a factor here.