Thanks Magnus. That is what I have been saying all along myself.

 

Ah, I see your point.
Guess I'm a bit curious myself () about Glens experience in this case.

An aspect not to forget is that many regulations often limits engine size, intake and weight. In the case of weight, for example 1100kg/2425lbs is a quite common limit. With such high weight requirement, it's possible to build a car with or without AWD and still make it 1100/2425. In these cases, AWD is often either banned by regulation or skipped because of technical issues other than tracking advantage.

But I'm ending up in an AWD/RWD discussion, not a C2/C4S one. So lets not walk this path

You're also certainly right about the brakes. The ring that is often used as a reference is very easy going on brakes and tires in general. Quite opposite from a normal track!

 

4 wheel drives are harder to drive really fast than 2 wheel drives. But they are often faster in the hands of a real expert.

This had been recognised in saloon car racing where various Audis did extremely well, one year winning outright seven different race series. These cars usually race with locked diffs.

Anybody consdering driving a C2 or a C4S on track is doing it for fun, rather than for money. In that case, I'd take the C2 everytime, much more fun.

R+C

 

Interesting posts. IMO, of your two presumably hypothetical choices, the C2 is the car to own for the track: less weight, less complexity, potentially lower operating costs. While the wider rubber and bigger brakes of the C4S are nice, and the C4S is much nicer in base trim than a C2, it just feels...big.

I began my track time in a stock 996 C4 and loved it. The understeer could be overcome with technique and the AWD was excellent. Next, I got a 996 C4S and it just felt heavy, I never tracked it (not only because it felt heavy, but it was too pretty). I have limited experience with my 996 GT3 on the track, but...wow...it is perfect for what it is. No, it's not a race car, but it is a perfect track toy.

If it's an option, skip the wet sump and go dry.

FWIW, my foray into racing is in a relatively cheaper momentum car from the Werkes. The car is low cost, but the racing doesn't seem to be.

 

For 4 years I've raced a 964 C4 after 12 years of racing a 65 911 - the C4 can oversteer just as much as the old short wheelbase car depending on suspension setup and weight transfer, doesn't cost me any more in repairs (as long as I don't hit anything!), and certainly does handle better than a 2wd 964 C2 counterpart.... in my hands - just takes a different way to drive it. A widebody car is also a nice advantage - I now race a 964 C4 Widebody car and no longer race the narrow body C4 and the wide car has a certain grip advantage.

I'd take the C4S! AWD is often thought of as good for wet driving only... in the dry, at the limits of tire adhesion, AWD does make a positive difference... The difference in the wet is greater because the 2wd counterpart is significantly hindered when putting down the power, whereas in the dry the 2wd car does just fine. This is especially true with the 964 all-wheel-drive system which can go from 0-100% power to the front axle based on wheel speed variation. Can the C4S system vary its power distribution that much?

 

maybe it has more to do with balance than with AWD. the c4s has more weight up front making it more 50/50. better weight distribution, better handling. crazy thought?

 

Yes. Sorry to say so, but the 50/50 is an old myth that turned out to be very hard to kill. Especially a AWD drive is even less sensitive to weight distribution.

 

well in "my forum, (TT)" everyone tries to make their TT into a RWD and rave about how much better it handles (aka GT2 like) granted all these guys cars are usually 5-600hp at least.
I love to track my TT and certainly consider doing almost anything that would make it more track worthy.
I must admit I think I feel better about leaving it AWD after this thread, thanks for the therapy!!
Again a big point here also is that the well handling track awd cars are fully prepared with race suspension, wider front tires, good sways etc. the intrinsic understeer must be dialed out for the awd to be any kind of a track weapon. Once that is done and say the car weighs 3300 pounds has 500+ hp and 6 piston brembos up front, it will keep up.

 

Interesting debate, that cannot reach a conclusion for sure. Driving style and preference makes a big difference, therefore it is impossible to say which is faster around the track.

FWIW, Sport Auto's same driver tested the 993 C 2 and 993 C4 around Hockenheim and got 1:18.3 for the 2WD vs. 1:18.5 for the 4WD, is this result conclusive? no. 993GT2 (430HP) lapped in 1:14.2 and the 993TT (430HP) lapped in 1:14.3, the latter is heavier though, no conclusive result. Additional grip offset by additional weight I would say.

The 996TT Alzen "BlackDevil" was fitted with a 4WD system for racing (mainly) the 24 hours of Nurburgring, it did include however a one off extremely expensive traction control system and lightweight CF torque tube and setup. Most races in Germany involve rain, and the torque on that car was certainly not forgiving.

I changed my car to 2WD 2 years ago and it is blinding fast on the track, I feel comfortable with oversteer though and would never get faster times with a 4WD setup, but it is just me.
There is no definitive answer.