Barry A. Waters

Folks,

As a graduate of Panoz's Racing School and a fledgling member of the Panoz Racing Series (first race w/Panoz is the support race at the Petit Le Mans in October) I was recently notified that Skip Barber is merging with Panoz's school operation and will become the sole provider of racing instruction at Road Atlanta beginning July the 1st of 2007 and continuing for the forseeable future. Follow the link below for details:

http://www.panozracingseries.com/new...s&-KeyValue=57

It seems that the Panoz GT's/GTRA's will survive for the schools and races scheduled for 2007 (probably w/Skip Barber badging as opposed to Panoz) but, after that, may transition to either open wheel or (possibly) Miatas.

My wife and I are Porsche 'nuts' through and through. We're happy to own two (an '86 Carrera and an '88 944). We're also very active with PCA: I'm a two-term Regional President and she's a two-term Regional Secretary.

Suffice to say this isn't a Porsche vs Panoz question but is strictly one about race driver education.

Since a PCA or SCCA Club Racing experience was not convenient for us at the time we started down the 'racing trail', Panoz seemed (and later PROVED) to be an excellent choice.

Great tracks (Road Atlanta, Sebring) and stellar staff and instructors. What can I say? After two years w/Panoz I'm a BIG fan of the program they run.

The real question is how those of you with Skip Barber time have found their (Skip Barber's) experience? They're certainly well known in the industry and wouldn't be in the position they're in without running a quality program.

We've really enjoyed the Panoz experience. Fantastic staff and instructors AND Panoz really had a 'family' aspect to it. The cars are excellent and the programs are true 'learning exercises' - NOT just 'basic seat time'.

Maybe the only thing that worries me is change itself! I just hope that Skip Barber will be able to put the same 'smile on my face' and 'knowledge in my head' that Panoz has been so consistently able to do.

Thoughts?

Barry

cooleyjb

If a Panoz puts a smile on your face a formula car will make you look like the Joker. A formula car is just a completely different experience compared to a production car. Even the underpowered softly sprung school cars are nimble and fast compared to many Porsches.

I'm just speaking on what I hear about the Panoz series but the average Panoz driver is an older person with a smaller desire to progress deep into the professional ranks. While that could be considered a postive or a negative I think it does affect the way a race unfolds. To be honest the scariest thing about Skip Barber series to me is the 17 year old who has no concept of money and will push to the point of getting into a wreck with another driver. However this isn't limited to 17 year olds and some might say that those 17 year olds with 10 years of kart racing experience are better to be around than the 45 year old who just started high perf driving 18 months ago.

I've done stuff with Skip Barber but not Panoz but I have a good buddy who's opinion I would trust talking about the differences between the two programs and he firmly believed that Skip Barber is a much better program that will provide a much better path into the racing world. He's spent a lot of time in those coaching circles and I'd consider that to be a well informed opinion.

I think it's a good thing and was excited to hear about a week ago when it was annouced.

DHinkle

Barry:

I started my interest in racing by attending the Panoz Race School and also completed PDE and PDE Masters. I've raced with Panoz for a couple of years and learned a great deal. The cars are really in tough shape. I think Barber taking over the program at Road Atlanta will be a real plus.

I've raced PCA for the past two years and can tell you the instruction given by the Panoz instructors is top notch. The guys that I race with in PCA that learned through Panoz all feel the same way. Three of us race (1 B Stock and 2 C stock) and we usually are at the top or near the top of our groups. Panoz was a great experience but moving into a good car that you can learn will be a real eye opener for you.

Lastly, a number of guys that I've raced against are racing pro. Jeff Courtney was Rookie of the Year in World Speed Challenge last year and races with Woodhouse. Barry Ellis, probably won more races than anyone in the Panoz series races Koni Challenge along with his teamates Frazier Wellon and Frank Rossi (both ex-Panoz racers). Charlie Putman runs WSC and Koni. Rick Skelton runs Koni along with Patrick Dempsey (both ex-Panoz racers). There are other racers that I'm sure I've missed but to say the desire to move onto the pro level isn't true. Two years ago, I finished 5th in the Petit support race and the top three finishers (Jeff; Barry and Charlie are all racing in pro series).

Please feel free to PM if you want to discuss options to pursue other racing options.

AlpharettaRK

I hope Skip Barber continues the track days here in Atlanta under a format similar to what Panoz has done. Sunday at Panoz days you get 3 good hours of track time, I don't know of other venues that get you that much time. I'll be there mid July, we'll see what the Panoz guys I've come to know have to say (assuming they are still there!)
Cheers
Randy

analogmike

I had a great time at the Panoz school at Road Atlanta a few years ago. The head instructor Joe Foster is great, he is now in the points lead in Koni GS. I got to race against him at the Grand-am race at Lime Rock. There were other great pro racers instructing too. Will be interesting to see the Barber/Panoz merge. I may try the Barber Miatas at Laguna Seca to get some track time there soon.

wanna911

I'm really concerned about this change. I really loved the Panoz Track Days because it was well structured, well ran and not too formal. Having gotten to group A with Panoz is the hardcore version of HPDE and I love it. I just hope they dont water it down with a bunch of formalities and make everyone start from scratch in beginner courses and such. I have been doing HPDE for a little over a year, I have 10 track events and 8 of them have been at Road Atlanta, if this turns out to be a bummer I will resort to only going to NASA, SCCA, and PCA events.



Can anyone give insight to how the lapping days are done with Skip Barber??? This is what's most important to me although at some point I will be entering into another racing school and would mind the skip barber racing school for that, but I need my lapping day fix as well. I cant find any info on their site about just lapping days and the High Perfomance Driving School for only two days is $1500 so I have to hope they have something cheaper for people that want seat time or else this wont work here.

analogmike

Skip Barber normally does not have "lapping day" track events in your cars. They are more a school that teaches in their cars. You can do lapping days in their cars after you have completed the schools, in preparation for the racing series I believe.

MomentumGuy

It would be nice to see them actually expand the TrackDays format to some other venues where Skip Barber has a presence.

I would love to have TrackDays at places like VIR, Mid-Ohio, and Barber Motorsports Park.

paradisenb

This statement leads me to believe they will continue with the 'Track Day', at least in the near future. The schedule is still posted on the wed site.

wanna911

That's what I thought, and if that is the case, I'll go and be a spectator since I live less than 10 minutes away, but nothing more, I bet that is even boring to watch. This is a sad sad day for Road Atlanta if this is what we get.

A930Rocket

The Panoz lapping days have gotten bad over time. You can't use a racing slick now and they seem to start later and later. So much time is wasted eaach morning that could be used to drive. We use to get 250 miles an no less than 200 years ago. Now you are lucky to get 100 it seems. The price has doubled as well.

cooleyjb

I doubt that Skip Barber would continue that portion of the Panoz school. It would be a very big change from the way they currently do things and I just don't see that happening. I could be wrong though.

SB currently has a lapping day that gets you roughly 100 miles in thier RT2000 car that costs about a 1000 bucks. The nice thing about it is that if you junk the engine, flat spot the tire, etc. you don't have to pay for it and they get you a new one. Currently if you put in one in the wall you do have to pay for the costs (not sure if it's limited liability for lapping days but it might be) so don't do that.

wanna911

There is nothing wrong with the Panoz Days in terms of track time, I have yet to hear one complaint of not getting enough time on track, ESPECIALLY if you run on sunday (you can get 3 hours track time easily). Are you reffering to DOT slicks or full slicks because I also have yet to see anyone get disqualified for running a certain kind of tires and I run Hoosier DOT slicks (2 grooves) myself along with several other people.


Maybe that's the way SB runs their programs but I assume all the people who packed the Panoz track days will now be at NASA, SCCA, BMWCCA, PBOC, PCA and Audi club events. There are several venues to get open laps at Road Atlanta but Panoz was my favorite because there was only three groups on saturday and two on sunday, you dont see that with very many groups.

chrisp

Are these Panoz track days basically DE's run by Panoz? Meaning they are customer car with limited or no instruction.

wanna911

Correct, Instructors are by request only, and they are all very good. But yeah it's customer cars and HPDE.