mamoroso

I had a wonderful weekend with NASA at Rockingham...

My instrusctor signed me up for Solo (HDP-3 I think in NASA jargon) and said I just need to be on track and practice, practice, practice as I have good car control skills, a good understanding of the different lines etc...

My goal for the next DEs will be working on mantaining more speed into corners...

This weekend I started with the Ford GT... and it is obviously too much car for me. Not that I was doing anything stupid but it's clear that the car is beyond my capabilities right now...

My fear of putting it into the walls at the Rock might have played a part in it, but I was definetly scrubbing off too much speed on corner entry...

Then the fact that you have monster torque avaliable at 2k rpm didnt make it easy for me to rotate the car properly...

For the second day I took my wife's 993. Completely stock... And I had a blast...

The 993 is much more predictable at the edge (well maybe the GT is a precision instrument handled by a brute) and it was second nature for me to rotate the car with my right foot...

With my instructor we played different lines throughout the day to practice my car control skills.

By the end he was very pleased and so was I.

But I am still aware of the fact that I am not carrying enough speed through the corner....

I did try braking later, but that always resulted in blowing the corner and missing the apex, with big smiles from the corner workers as I was sideway mid through the turn...

So I think I need to keep my braking point and just brake less...

Now this seems somewhat difficult for my brain to accept... How can I make it around that corner at this speed?

I started getting more comfortable on the bank (at the Rock they use half of the oval plus the infield), where my entry speed crept up 10mph by the end of the day.
Still I know the car could take a little more, it was just the brain sayin no.

And on the bank it was somewhat easier as you know (you see the race guys doing it) there is grip and, but how do you reach the limit (or just get closer) on any other turn?

Are there particular things that I should focus on or just practice, practice, practice as my instructor said?

He mentioned that speed will come as I was very smooth and consistent and it was just a matter of confidence in the car's and my capabilities...

Do you have any suggestions?

PS
it is definetly much quicker to learn with a lesser car.... Lesson learned.

LVDell

Suggestion and a point. My suggestion is simple. SEAT TIME, SEAT TIME, SEAT TIME. There is absolutely NO substitute for SEAT TIME. You want to get better, that comes in time. It comes with SEAT TIME and being smooth like your instructor said.

This past weekend I was instructing at VIR. We were running the Grand course (4.2 miles). One of my students was having a heck of a time "reeling" in the car (a Z06) to just "feel" the track. Power is addicting and it is very easy to just MASH the throttle and get that rush of torque up your ***.

I told him (after we had been out several session and a few off's) that we were going to try something new. I did NOT want him to go fast. I just wanted to work on the line and having smooth inputs (steering, braking, and throttle). Guess what? He was 15 seconds a lap faster (consistently) than his consistent lap times "his" way in earlier sessions. He didn't believe so I had to show him my timing of him. I keep those quiet till I think it is appropriate to show them. This was one of those situations to PROVE to him that slower really was faster! By being smooth and in his mind "slower" he was braking sooner and smoother but able to carry much more speed. The reason it felt slower is that there wasn't that violent weight transfer that he was producing by mashing on the brakes, then mashing on the trottle to feel that power and then FIGHT the car all the way through the corner.

Hope that makes some sense.

mamoroso

It does...

2 weeks ago (1st time out with the Ford GT) I was faster in the rain (pouring conditions, track was a swimming pool) than in the dry...

I was all over the place in the dry (again too much car for me), whilst the rain forced me to be smooth.... result? Faster lap times in the rain.

When I came into the pits nobody could believe I was pushing so hard with my car under those condition... I was puzzled as we were taking it very very easy.... and yet with street tires and controlled throttle action I was lappng really quickly.

So SEAT TIME is what my instructor told me. He said at this point really the learning curve will be quite flat for me... and it might be frustrating at the beginning.
He also said that if I want to improve faster I should take the stock 993 out.... then after 10-12 DEs get into the GT and fly....

LVDell

Matteo, I had the same progression but I deliberately went much slower than 10-12 events. I started about 4 years ago and my first weekend out my instructor (fantastic instructor out in Vegas) told me that there wasn't much she could teach me that my skill set was very natural and I needed to be paired with a very advanced driver that could get my craft pushed to the limit. My learning curve was relatively flat and it came down to seat time to get those fine skills needed to really push a car.

I really wanted to get a GT3 in the beginning but I was new to this sport and knew that was a recipe for disaster. I tracked my CAB on street tires and pads for a long time to really understand car control and the physics involved in various situations. I then moved to race pads and fluid. I was able to learn how to brake better and deeper with a more smooth response. Then I moved to upgraded the suspension to the RoWM030 to explore more limits. After 2 years I realized I was at a place with the CAB that unless I made drastic changes I had outgrown the car. I then made the decision to buy a GT3 and lusted for one as the pinnacle of track supremacy delivered by PAG. Problem was that I couldn't find the perfect one for me. They were all snatched up since there were less than 1000 sold here in the US. I finally found the perfect one last year and bought it. Since then I have taken my track skillset to a whole different level. And now I feel as though there is so much to learn in the GT3. Most people will never really get out of it what it can truly do. Those are usually nonstop pucker moments.

When I got the GT3 I had 50 days on the track under my belt and told myself to start over with it. Street tires for several events but I did use race pads (RS19's). This past season I moved to R-Comps as well and have had a blast learing the car. I really couldn't "experiment" with it at VIR where I usually am so I hit CMP every chance I get. That is a great teaching and learning track. Really not a lot of places to get in trouble. I sharpened my trailbraking and rotation control there so I would be confident doing it at a HIGH speed track like VIR.

Be patient and the rewards will be so satisfying. It great to take those baby steps (hp, tires, pads, etc) and do it in a car with no electronic aids (except ABS) and know that it really is you driving and not the car driving itself.

I still get so excited for every event and can't wait to work on new things. After 4 years I just purchased my FIRST timing device. I had no desire up until know b/c face it, who cares what my lap times were and I didn't want to get stuck in that trap of trying to beat a lap time and then do something stupid. The main reason I bought my timing device recently (Traqmate) was not so much for lap timing but for data analysis to see if different approaches to specific places on the track were better or worse comparing them.

Happy Motoring!

A.Wayne

Look at this video , it's worth it's weight in gold .......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk2p2nRK-p4 telemetry

LVDell

That is a great one Wayne. Perfect example of teaching the difference between squeezing the throttle versus mashing the throttle and the reward from doing the former.

924RACR

I would suggest a different approach (vs. your attempt to raise your corner apex speeds by going in hotter) - seems like you'll only continue to be slow out of the corners, compensated by extra torque.

Try instead to drive the car too easy on corner entry. Brake at 7/10ths, at the most. Take it real easy, just throw away the corner entry... and spend your time and focus on NAILING the apex perfectly. Focus on having the car at the limit AT the apex and on track out - instead of on your way to the apex from turn-in.

This was what got me to the front of the pack, eventually, and within grasp of the lap record. I found a huge amount of speed left on the table when I tried to optimize grip and usage of the tires at the apex, not before.

If nothing else, it's free advice and just something different to try, that might just end up teaching you something...

Good luck.

mitch236

Corner entry speed is one of the most challanging parts of the corner. Too fast and you spend the most part collecting the car. Too slow and you never catch up. But having said that, I would suggest you not worry so much about entry right now and spend your time learning the basics. The entries will come with time but to master (as best one's ability allows) corner entry relies on being very consistent and having great car control skills to control over-cooking the entry.

SundayDriver

Unless your objective is to see how many different ways you can crash, I suggest you forget about entry speed. Work on the line, then exit speed. If you do well with those, then you will be within a couple of seconds of the car's capabilities.

When you start building entry speed, you loose the ability to safely bail out when you make a mistake. You are going to start having a lot of offs when you chase entry speed - Most DE participants never chase that, nor should they. The risk is too high for a street car.

paradisenb

I attended a DE at Barber this past weekend. Randy Pobst and Ian Bass gave chalk talks for an hour Saturday and Sunday. I asked Randy a similar guestion, "How do I get faster" he/they responded with hit your apexes and focus on exit speed. Coming out of a corner is where most lap time improvements can be found.

I also did a few hot laps with Randy. He was driving a 550 HP 997TT. He did a 1:40 taking it relatively easy. Hard out of the corners, threshold braking and constantly negotiating the slip angle near the limit. Not your typical Sunday droven.

mamoroso

Let me rephrase....

I think I am scrubbing off too much speed (braking too much) because I don't have the ***** and think the car is not going to be able to go around the corner at that speed.

I know I am wrong because the car CAN do better.

What can I do (apart from surgery if I find a donor for the above mentioned attributes) to improve this?

Mark I AM trying to maximise exit speed.

I am quite consistent with the line and I with my instructor we concentrated on working on 2 specific corners. Lap after lap I would have a 50mph exit corner speed. When we knew this was a fair base line reading we started trying to adjust the approach to the turn....

A little earlier turn in with more rotation sp that I could carry more speed etc...

Sometimes it worked, sometimes I just blew the apex... sometimes I was way too fast and it must have been fun to see me from the outside drifting for half the turn.

This was a long slow corner, perfect for "testing" and pushing my limits.

Also I wasn't doing it in the Ford GT as its limits are certainly beyond my capabilities right now.
But the 993 was predictable and more manageable.

I just feel that the car can be faster around the corners.

I think there is not much point in going around and doing the same thing all over again without pushing towards improving.

I think that I was braking too late with the same force whilst I need to mantain braking points and brake less.
By braking later I was forced to trail brake too much and I was upsetting the balance of the car (993) and always ended up having to catch it.

So I'd like pointers by you guys....

924RACR

You're talking a lot about corner entry and braking technique. I think the common thread here, not just from me but from actual fast guys is that you should forget about the entry and focus instead on the exit.

mamoroso

OK...
How do I focus on the exit? How do I improve exit speed? I am pretty consistent with the line and I hit the apex if I don't "try" particular stuff going in...

So do I just keep doing it the way I am? How do I get out of that turn at 55mph instead of 50mph? Do I try a different line? Maybe the one I have been doing is not the best for the car?
Are these the questions I should ask myself?

Sean F

At what point in the corner are you back to full throttle most of the time? After the apex, at the apex, before the apex? Do you have to feather the throttle or do you go on full when you get back to it?

Doug H

I know what you are getting at. A good instructor could help you here. My students are almost always braking too much for corner entry or turn in. I initially give them marks for braking, off, and maintenance throttle. I know by feel what is a safe speed and I am constantly telling them brake, off (brakes), and throttle in most corners. At first, they are hesitant about the off when I say it because it is hotter than what they are used to. I also get them off early enough to get the car balanced and on a maintenance throttle at turn in.

Once they trust me, they get the feel of driving a balanced car with speed through turn in to the apex. At apex, it is all about feel of the car's yaw and slip angle, feel of fronts through steering wheel, and just knowing by feel when the car will accept without creating too much understeer.

You cannot learn any of this here. You will have to develop a feel for this stuff. A good instructor and advanced car control can help expedite the process.