jester911

I rode with Ian myself. I also won the raffle that got him to ride with me as an instructor. It was very helpful.
Randy I looked around for you some over the weekend and never saw your car.
Were you in the car in your avatar?

mamoroso

At this particular turn I was referring to I:
brake
then almost immediately back on the throttle
then i ease on the throttle to rotate the car
then I am on full B4 the apex.

What am i doing wrong? What can I do to increase my exit speed?
When I screw up the above is when I get onto the throttle too much and I need to ease more than I wanted creating a too abrupt weight transfer. This makes the rear come around too much and I lose speed.

mamoroso

OK you nailed it. This is exactly how I feel. I know we can carry more speed as I can feel we are quite below max speed at the apex. But I need to develop the confidence/sensibility of getting in faster....

paradisenb

What you don't want to do is get on then back off the throttle. The idea is to set up the apex then roll on the throttle once and stay full power to the next brake point.

LVDell

As opposed to using the throttle to rotate which would be more throttle steer have you tried trailbraking to rotate so that you can carry more speed into the corner and then on the gas right after rotation before the apex?

ps. Matteo, what events are you doing in the coming months? I am sure we will be at some of the same events and I would be happy to take you out (if possible) to illustrate some of this.

mamoroso

Dell

I am in the process of moving to the UK. My family is already there. The only thing holding me back is the completion of the 811 project (in my signature).

I signed up for the PCA DE at Loewes. If I am still here4 I will do NASA at CMP on 7/13. Is there anything around here on 7/7?

I'd love to go out with you. My instructor is on the waiting list for Loewes. He's great!

LVDell

I'll be instructing at Lowe's but not sure how much can be shown there. It is a weak infield followed by pretty much the entire D oval. Should be fun but nothing I am going to take a 10/10th.

CMP is a fantastic track. My favorite for technical instruction and learning. If you are still going to the Lowe's event swing by. I am in the yellow GT3 #210.

Doug H

Yep. A good way to learn is a hard thresh hold brake, off, let the car settle, and then use a maintenance throttle at or just before turn in. Just enough throttle to maintain a consistent speed with out acceleration. The maintenance throttle will plant the tail and give you stability with speed through the corner. Newbies have a tendency to brake too long (out of caution) and then enter a corner with an unsettled car while being off the accellerator.

This past weekend, I had a student with 40 track days and the maintenance throttle was a novel concept to him. At first, he would accellerate when getting back on the throttle which I could feel and he could not. After a couple of sessions, it all clicked. He then learned how to balance and steer or change the slip angle with the throttle. He also began to feel, without me telling him, when the car was rotating or coming around so he could accellerate hard at just the right the right time.

You have to pay attention to the car and be smooth. The car will tell you where the perfect line is so to speak. Very minor adjustments in the the throttle will keep the line optimal without forcing the car with the steering wheel and allow you to maintain a line through a corner without altering your steering input to the apex. Otherwise, you will likely be just scrubbing off speed by inducing understeer and maintaining a bad slip angle or preventing proper rotation at or before the apex which will allow you to maximize your exit speed. Hard to explain, but very easy to show someone what it feels like on the track. The difference is accelerating when the car is ready as opposed to when you think your should be.

Doug H

Depends on type of turn, banking and etc. To rotate, you may actually need to be patient (the fronts will scrub the speed) or gently ease off for a 1/2 a second. If the car is not rotated, as you put it, at or near the apex and you accellerate, you may induce understeer and may even prevent rotation or decrease your slip angle. You can get through the turn understeering and on the gas probably by small steering inputs back and forth to get the fronts to bite, but you will be down 2 or 3 mph when you exit the corner.

I even do full on split second lifts sometimes to get the car to rotate in hair pins or carousels if I am really hot. This is quicker than allowing understeer to scrub the speed and allows me to get the proper slip angle or yaw to maximize acceleration as early as possible.

mamoroso

This is the map of the track. It is run anti-clock wise.

The turn I was concentrating on is turn 5-6. Some people do a double apex there...

I was taking a very late single apex staying all out on the left...

I would finish my braking before turn in, mantain throttle up to when I wanted to rotate the car, then then blip the throttle for a split second and rotate b4 apex. If everything went as planned then full on throttle, apex, track out.

Turn 3-4 were perfect for trail braking in my opinion... so that you could single apex it (late). I was not good at that though. I was coming into turn 3 at around 120mph and I was not smooth enough in the transition between brake and throttle and I ended up over-rotating the car...
So I concentrated in getting my braking done before turn in and then hit my apex etc... but very aware I was braking way too much.

Here I think that my mistake when trail braking was braking too late with the same force, whilst I should have started at the same point but braking less.


Turn 7 was a throw away corner.

I experimented with turn 8-9 between a late and medium apex... Turn 9 puts u onto the bank and my car preferred a medium apex using the bank to rotate again at full throttle.

I am rambling here and I am really treasuring all the comments you guys have mad. I wish I could go out again tomorrow....

mitch236

Again I will reiterate what I said. Having listened to what you are writing, I think you need to learn car control skills before increasing entry speed. There is alot of technique involved in getting the car to make it to the apex when carrying more speed and more chance of losing control. Trust me when I say that if you get more seat time, the speed will come. If you really want to gain speed fast, hire a professional coach. Most instructors will only get you to learn the basics and keep you safe.

racing97

Check this out (physics of racing series)
http://www.miata.net/sport/Physics/Part17.html
I occasionally do data for our race team and I feel it is the most common problem. It requires restraint not to pick the habbit of too much speed on entry.

regards

Doug H

Ah yeah, turn 5 - 6 looks like a double apex for sure. I would single apex though until you learn to rotate the car and, more importantly, the feel of the car rotating and when the car is lining up for the straight. Not a trail brake corner unless you are double apexing and trail braking to the first apex.

For single apex, I would use a quick threshold and then maintenance throttle. If the car is not rotating or the car is understeering at or near the middle of the carousel, do not add more throttle. You are too hot. Speed will scrub if you do nothing, but you can decrease the radius, get the car to rotate and get on the gas even sooner if you decrese throttle slightly until you feel the shift. Pay attention, be patient, and you will feel the car settle and come around.

mamoroso

Very nice. I will print it out and read it carefully.

Mitch I hear you, and I agree with you. I am not trying to skip steps. I just want to correct any type of mistake early.

You guys have all more experience.

If you say "Matteo you are doing everything right, keep your head down, keep doing what you are doing, don't experiment and you'll see how little by little your exit corner speed will increase as a consequence of refining you car control skills. You'll really reach the limits of the car with time and you'll look back and realize how far you were from the limits on exit.
When that happens you'll be ready to maximize the entry speed"....

...then I am OK with that... I just want to make sure that I am not starting with the wrong foot.

Cheers!

mamoroso

This was EXACTLY what I was doing. And I was pretty consistent as i developed a good feel for the car and my exit speed was always close to the same mark.
I was always trying to reduce the radius by lifting a little rather than let the car understeer if I was too hot.

HA! so double apexing would have been the way to go eh? Next time then! Thanks for the clear explanation!