TD in DC

Larry said it exactly right. Not much more to add. Keep in mind that I wasn't arguing against smooth inputs. I was merely pointing out that it is important that students understand that this sport is all about weight balance and keeping the platform of your car smooth. Smooth inputs keep the car balanced in the first place, while abrupt inputs can help you get a car back into balance if you have exceeded the limit for whatever reason.

Newbies can, and do, smooth input themselves right off the track sometimes.

Geo

I agree with this. I agree that one must do whatever one must to keep the car under control.

Geo

I think this is really key and part of what separates the Sennas and M. Schumachers from the rest of us. It sounds like a bit of an oxymoron, but I don't think it is. Getting the right amount of input at the right time at the right speed can be very difficult to achieve. Let's face it, the physics is the same for everyone and size of ones ***** doesn't really equate to speed. IMHO it's all in those minute inputs and the ability to control the fine motor skills. It sounds easy while typing at a computer, but it's entirely different at speed with your butt hurtling towards oblivion... Those who can really master it are amazing. Watching Hans Stück at The Ring makes me feel like the hack that I am.

kurt M

Along with the good stuff already posted (that is about the original topic ) much of what I work on with a Green student is UN-learning the bad habits of street driving. Things like looking at the bumper of the car in front, poor hand placement, and creeping over before turn in and the like.
Reinforcing the basics is or should be a requirement for early students and not so new drivers alike. + and - before multiplication and division. A solid grasp of and foundation built on the simple basics will give the student the freedom and mental room to advance. He can work on fine tuning his line and car control inside the envelope of a complete information frame work. I would think that this would help the student make sense of advanced concepts and lowers the frustration factor.

2BWise

How about getting comfortable with being in the car, and I don't mean not sitting on your cellphone, although your cell shouldn't be with you in the car anyways. But more importantly, being comfortable with being on track, going relatively fast (even if just in a straight line), being comfortable with others on track, and being comfortable with your personal driving limits. I know that those first few times on track are nerve-wracking and can make a person drive worse. If you can get a person relaxed it makes learning that much easier.

speedread

I really agree. Getting them relaxed is a first priority, along with having fun! I ask them to drive slower than on the street at first, (but don't enforce it), then we focus on a set sequence as we go through the track. Put being relaxed, with having fun, and learning a set pattern, and soon you have real speed. After that the line can be varied, etc. rather easily once the confidence is there.

kurt M

Be safe. Have fun. Learn something. In that order.

FTS

Here is my not so smooth input to the thread as a blue student

BOTS... what ever the heck it is that the national seems to be hot on teaching green students; Break, yada yada yada, Throttle, Steer. A load of crap if you ask me. I had an instructor trying to teach me to do that to be smooth; it was terrible, my whole timing and rythm went out of the window and I wasted my whole weekend trying to please this instructor... yeah I got a 5 for my 'learning ability", whoopdie doo!

Teaching good habits are essential, no doubt. In the green and blue groups, that is all we really got, the precious time with instructors... once we go white, it is mostly up to the student to find new ways to attack the track while not forgetting what we learned previously. If a student gets to white without a good foundation, it will only get worse later on IMO.

That does not mean teach 'em BOTS or just the DE line and to keep it at 8/10th all the time. You don't want a blue student go into white without having explored the non-convential lines or driving at 9-10/10th or increasing the speed of his/her inputs to have the car in control without totally rocking the boat. The foundation has to mean the student has to be able to alter his/her line regularly while keeping the speed up and experimenting with different input/output scenarios. A blue student should have at least gone through 2 or 3 sessions without any brakes, or driving the entire course completely off-line, or driven in the rain nearly as competently as in the dry by fully understanding the car and its behaviour to inputs.

Please, don't let us out of the blue group without all that above experienced, otherwise we'll put ourselves and others at risk.

SundayDriver

I think you misunderstand what TD is saying. You use smooth inputs to make the car do what you want. You do whatever input is needed to bring the car back to what you want. If you are at the limit, the car is going to slip and bobble. The CAR is no longer smooth and you will end up making what appears to be jerky inputs to make the car smooth out.

A good example is T11 at Mid Ohio, at the limit. You brake under some cornering load and turn in smoothly. But the track is going to make the car slide so you make fast corrections (often jerky looking) because there is less grip just before the apex. At the apex the grip gets better (corner banking and increasing radius) then you are good to go. When you hit the crest of the hill, the car may twitch a bit if you have a touch of steering left in the car. You better make very fast (and jerky looking) corrections unless you want to chat with Mr. Wall. So this corner has two sections where the car will bobble. I can pretty much guarantee that if you take this corner with smooth steering all the way through, then you are not at the limit.

TD in DC

Ed zachary.

ronbo56

I'm in green (soon to be blue - I hope) with about 25 total track days, mostly in a 944 NA with a very good suspension and R-compounds. I totally agree that good driving is built on a strong foundation.

Habits are things people do consistently without conscious thought. The more elements of driving that can be done out of habit, the more bandwidth the driver has for specific things that can't be done without conscious thought (this corner, that pass, etc,). At the very beginning, I had to think about everything, and wasn't consistent about anything, so I had limited bandwidth for learning how to go fast. As good instructors emphasized consistency, I was able to do more and more without active thought and thus had more capacity to move beyond the basics. I even developed a couple of bad habits, one of which (a braking problem) my instructor and I just spent the whole weekend working on at Mid-Ohio.

Matt Romanowski

Back on topic a little.....

I agree with you Rick. My basic philosophy for people with <10 days is to simply teach them the line, basics like being smooth, vision, and the sequence for taking a corner (i.e. brake, off brake, turn in, apex, throttle, track out).

RickBetterley

Hi Matt
Thank you for the agreement; I guess if it works its right.
I love to see how threads wander around; I guess its just like face to face communication (though with more opportunity for misunderstandings).
Off to Rennsport next week; what's your next event?

Matt Romanowski

I haven't signed up for anything yet. I've been busy working on the new house and traveling a little. I need to get a track fix soon....

sjanes

Rick,

See you on Monday. This would be a good topic to discuss over a beer and a cuban