speedread

When Porsche test driver Walter Rohrl sets a record at The Ring, etc. do you KNOW if he use stability management with a 996, 997, GT3, etc.? I know he has a hand in the system and uses it, but what about when setting a record lap?
Do you turn it off, and why. If you have it turned on and it doesn't kick in when you're driving fast, are you actually not going as fast as the car will go; or are you getting the 7% slip angle just fine, and not setting it off? Thus staying safe while driving truly fast?

mdrums

I keep PSM (Please Save Me) on when doing DE track days. I am not a pro driver and would like any help in not wrecking my car. I did turn if off at the AutoX in order to be able to help rotate the rear around the cones. I could not tell much of a difference with it on or off. However at a auto cross there are no walls and you are going a much slower speed plus you are the only one on the course. PSM never really affected my times in a bad way.
I learned at my Porsche Sport Driving School that if you drive smooth PSM will not interfere and in the 997 the system has been moved out even further and you can slide the car around a little. This was proven to me by a few of the excellent instructor at this school like Hurley Haywood, Daniel Eatman, Cass Whitehead and Peter Litzenberger.

Nordschleife

When I have driven with Röhrl he has left stabi on. To be honest, most of the time for a top pilot its a matter of complete indifference whether its on or off.

It matters to people who drive with big inputs which are held for some time. As Walter drives with small inputs applied for brief periods ("I was a little surprised, I had to open the wheel by half a hand in one or two places"), the stability system very rarely intrudes, hardly surprising as Walter did so much testing of the car.

If you want to go showboating, disable or turn it off.

R+C

boqueron

Was he achieving his best lap times ? ( I imagine that even Röhrl decides when to go 9/10 or 10/10ths )..

In my TT, the PSM was intruding a lot - in short turns - compared to what I have felt when tracking a 997s. It's also true that , driven on a technical and "slow" track, I wanted to oversteer a bit with the TT in order to avoid it's very evident understeer..

( BTW, I am not anyway near a top pilot )

Mark Dreyer

Well when I was riding with Walter,.....wait that was in my dreams.

RonCT

I only started driving my 997S in March, so my experience with it is somewhat limited. I do not have Sport Chrono - so there's no sport setting to PSM on my car. 2 "warm-up" DEs at Lime Rock and then Cups & Saucers marathon at Watkins Glen (6.5 hours on track in 2 days). I've experimented and found that PSM was inconsequential, meaning it never showed its face unless I was in "experiment" mode as I was learning how a rear-engined car likes to be driven. It flashed briefly on the uphill at LRP a couple of times as intended - I wanted to see if it was there in the background or somehow broken - because as I tossed the car around in a controlled manner, it wasn't kicking in as expected (due to M3 experience). At The Glen, it never kicked in. So in 10.5 hours on track, I've only seen it when I intended - as a way to see what the limits of the system are.

I've tossed the car quite a bit especially at The Glen as I got more familiar with the car. I was surprised that I could not appear to get PSM to even kick in. Heavy rotation, 4 wheel drift, etc. - and no PSM.

I will say that there were several "oops" moments at The Glen as I ramped up (2:17s bone stock,
street tires on a cold and cloudy day) where I quickly corrected and I was somewhat amazed that PSM didn't yet kick in. These were not major "I'm in trouble" situations, probably because I quickly corrected. But I was impressed at the flexibility in the Porsche system because in the BMW, DSC would have lit up like a Christmas tree and taken over.

Thing is, we cannot disable PSM anyway - so we have to learn to live with it being "back there". Yes, you can press the button, but as soon as ABS is invoked in 2 or more wheels, PSM comes back on. Fortunately, I found it's inconsequential - it could be on or off, wouldn't matter. Then again, when somebody dumps coolant onto the line in front of me, maybe PSM will help steer me clear and allow me to drive my car home

speedread

How did you get to drive with Walter?

Nordschleife

I hae been with him in high speed cruise mode, and in 'this is business' mode.
put it this way, there was a lot of 'kit' in the car and it wasn't a public day - it was a 'pre production' car, he was 'working', not on a pr jaunt. The output of what was being monitored really mattered, so in a lot of places there wasn't a lot left in terms of unused potential.

Actually, even his taxi driver trips are extremely entertaining, especially if there is a 'stooge' in the car.

R+C

Nordschleife

Short answer - I was invited, after I had let my desire to drive with him be known in certain quarters. I also came across him a lot in the course of part of my consulting work. It probably helped that I had organised the financial rescue of a couple of leading Porsche privateer teams and make a point of driving above the Arctic Circle in winter (Audi is more fun than Porsche), these are events are where you get to meet people like Röhrl, Haider, McRea and Klein in winter and then going to events at great tracks elsewhere at other times to drive with these guys and others as well, and working on new product launches. If you have languages, an outgoing personality and are classified as a 'pilot', it is relatively easy to work on product launches. The next time you attend a new car launch, talk to the people doing the practical demonstrating, you will be surprised how many have extensive backgrounds in motorsport in general and rallying in particular.

Talk to these people enough so that you become a person, and you are on the first steps of the way to drive with whoever you want to drive with. I do recall a recent multiple F1 World Champion attending one of the winter driving events - you meet allsorts at these events.

R+C

RonCT

R+C (Nordschleife),

I have a question for you -- Many of us here at RennList (the serious Porsche enthusiast forum) have had thoughts, ideas, suggestions, lamentations, etc. over the years with respect to the direction Porsche has gone over the years. One example is the mandate for a sunroof in the GT3 -- where we've discussed it at length, conducted RL polls, written Porsche as individuals, etc. We here feel that as enthusiasts, Porsche should be interested in our thoughts and comments. Granted, we may not be the mass market that Porsche is steering towards to increase business, but we believe we represent the original core market group and that Porsche should be interested in our point of view. It should be possible for Porsche to continue in their "non-enthusiast" growth mode while still satisfying the "old timers". No, we understand we cannot get away from things like ABS, PSM, federally mandated safety items like Air Bags, etc. Nor do I think most of us feel those things should go away. But we do have some things like the sunroof mandate example above that we feel Porsche should consider when creating the US market model.

That all being said, do you feel that you might be able to help create a platform for us to at least be heard at Porsche? Many of us have tried to write letters to Porsche, and most of us have been ignored (ie: Not even a courtesy response), while a few did receive a letter that basically said nothing -- Thank you for your interest in Porsche...

I feel strongly that at least if we had an outlet to express the general feelings of the enthusiast group - DE drivers, Club Racers, etc. - then at least we would feel better that we did our part to explain our thoughts, and Porsche would have the benefit of many decades of US enthusiast experience.

Thanks,
Ron

A.Wayne

Back in the early ninetys , such rides could be done with Walter here in the states,
Last time i saw him here , was at Sebring 93 0r 94 , It was fantastic to see him go in the rain and with Hans Stuck as his teammate a bit unfair for the other to say the least .... I remembered if you approached him with Fanfare , he would shy away , approach easy going no fanfare , nothing but a regular guy very easy going , all in all my all time favorite best as a rally driver and after watching him at Sebring would have been one hell of a roadracer by any standard....

mdrums

I'd like to add my name to what Ron has said. Thank you, Mike

A.Wayne

Falling on Deaf ears , guys , best way to do this , is get a group together go to the Parade and give your complaint publicly to whom ever the porsche rep is at the Parade , you can speak openly and directly and then hand him your letters ,, you will get better attention this way........

mdrums

Here is a great video of Walter giving a test ride at one of the new Turbo launches.

http://media.drive.com.au/?rid=19139

Nordschleife

Ron

PCNA is unique - it cuts off its customers from everybody else. So you need to find people to talk to at PCNA.
There are a few RennListers who supply Porsche, people like this, based in the US will have the contacts you need at PCNA. Failing them, find a bunch of enthusiasts who attend events like the RennSport Reunion, Rolex Historics at Monterey, and get to know folk like Uwe Brettel, even the now retired Alwin Springer, if he is around. Look out for people who have been brought over from Europe, these folk tend to be quite approachable. Your problem is that PCNA is a marketing and distribution company, their customers are all the dealers. Few dealer principals are petrol heads. These people are your real problem, they 'understand' what the US market wants.

However, why not start a 904 project. Then you would have an excuse to deal directly with Zuffenhausen/Weissach, and you would have a lightweight, no airbag, no ABS dream car. By the time that was done, your contacts would be immaculate, although your pocket might be a bit empty!

Whilst at the RennSport Reunion, bend people's ear about your need to talk to the right people, it never hurts.

R+C