1st DE
05-21-2007 | 11:24 AM
#16
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From: Valencia, Spain
NC - glad it ended well for you and it's a good lesson for anyone that uses an instructor. Not all instructors are good (but most are excellent), and some are downright bad. NEVER feel intimidated about ending a session and asking for a different instructor. It sounds like the 1st one you got was there for the instructor discount and shouldn't be allowed in the right seat.
Oh, and here is his picture in case anyone knows him..
Oh, and here is his picture in case anyone knows him..
Last edited by Gary R.; 06-18-2008 at 07:11 PM.
05-21-2007 | 11:34 AM
#18
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Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Houston, TX USA
Originally Posted by NCporsche
The ugly. Saturday morning, I was pleased to find my instructor did not have another student. This would be an opportunity to meet and spend some time with a dedicated track rat, and what a rat he was. Maybe we just started out wrong. At the driver's meeting when instructors were asked to raise their hands, I missed his hand going up. My fault. After the meeting was concluded, I was told where he might be and went to find him.
Next was an introductory run on the course for the green group that had never been on the track or a DE. As he settled in the car, I gave a brief introduction that I was as green as they come. I've had a year of seat time in the car, just driving and getting in the mountains when I can.
Halfway through the first introductory lap, he's yelling at me. If I remember his words correctly, they were "You are a ****ing greenie". Now, we are in the second introductory lap and he's grabbing the steering wheel, while screaming, to keep me on line.
Oh ****. I'm a complete *******. Two simple laps around CMP and I'm not only green, but a total ****ed-up ******* that has absolutely no right to be in Driver's Education.
I've managed to get through the course twice under yellow. Now, the first run for the day for the green group is starting. I pick up my instructor and off we go. He has cooled down a bit, and I'm trying to start this morning off with a positive attitude.
We get to the carousel and again he is grabbing the steering wheel. For those that may be reading this and not familiar with CMP, the carousel is turns 5 - 7 (of a 14 turn course) and a sweeping right hand turn. There are no obstructions if I should go off course. This is a yellow flag lap, and he's grabbing the steering wheel like I'm about to drive into a brick wall!
After this first lap, still under yellow, I pull into the pit area to try to calm myself down. We go back out and I manage to finish the first 20 minute session.
Just to inform everyone, I am 50 years old and have been berated many times in my 50 years, but after delivering my instructor to his chosen place of solitude, I'm in tears. My next session will not be on the track. My next session will be packing up and heading home, so much for my Driver's Education. I got educated, just not in the way I anticipated.
Next was an introductory run on the course for the green group that had never been on the track or a DE. As he settled in the car, I gave a brief introduction that I was as green as they come. I've had a year of seat time in the car, just driving and getting in the mountains when I can.
Halfway through the first introductory lap, he's yelling at me. If I remember his words correctly, they were "You are a ****ing greenie". Now, we are in the second introductory lap and he's grabbing the steering wheel, while screaming, to keep me on line.
Oh ****. I'm a complete *******. Two simple laps around CMP and I'm not only green, but a total ****ed-up ******* that has absolutely no right to be in Driver's Education.
I've managed to get through the course twice under yellow. Now, the first run for the day for the green group is starting. I pick up my instructor and off we go. He has cooled down a bit, and I'm trying to start this morning off with a positive attitude.
We get to the carousel and again he is grabbing the steering wheel. For those that may be reading this and not familiar with CMP, the carousel is turns 5 - 7 (of a 14 turn course) and a sweeping right hand turn. There are no obstructions if I should go off course. This is a yellow flag lap, and he's grabbing the steering wheel like I'm about to drive into a brick wall!
After this first lap, still under yellow, I pull into the pit area to try to calm myself down. We go back out and I manage to finish the first 20 minute session.
Just to inform everyone, I am 50 years old and have been berated many times in my 50 years, but after delivering my instructor to his chosen place of solitude, I'm in tears. My next session will not be on the track. My next session will be packing up and heading home, so much for my Driver's Education. I got educated, just not in the way I anticipated.
FWIW, after grabbing the wheel, I would have pit first opportunity and told him to "get the **** out of my car" (considering his language towards you I would have responded in terms he could appropriately understand).
I know some instructors have been known to guide students by grabbing the wheel, but I'd NEVER EVER allow someone to touch the controls while I'm driving. Do it once and you're out of the car. Period. Explain all you want why you did it, but the result is the same. Out of the car.
Screaming at a student and berating him/her is beyond my comprehension. I don't even know what to say. Other than impending doom, I can't ever see a reason for it. Maybe I've never had the "student from hell" but I had one that truly scared me in the middle of a session over the weekend and that's hard to do. I simply told him to pit and we needed to talk. Calm, controlled. We talked in the pits and it was done.
Stick with it. Thankfully instructors like your first one are few. Don't ever stand for it. This is driver education, not Marine Corps boot camp. Shoot, I don't even think the boot camp DIs are allowed to talk to new recruits like that anymore. Hang in there. Have fun. If you EVER get an instructor you can't seem to connect with, don't be afraid to discuss it with whoever is in charge of the instructors and ask for a new one.
05-21-2007 | 11:38 AM
#19
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From: Virginia
I heard a "rumor" about your experience while I was there. I also know the second instructor you got and he is a really good kid (I'm 57 so it should be OK for me to call him a kid).
All in all it was a great experience for me. No negatives, no uglies. And like you all the pieces started to fall together. Man, I would love more brakes on the 993. LOL
And I am now accepted into Lowe's so already looking forward to that. And if things go well, I will be there in my new 914. . . If I ever get DAS to ship it here from Houston.
Hey Ziggie111, you listening?
All in all it was a great experience for me. No negatives, no uglies. And like you all the pieces started to fall together. Man, I would love more brakes on the 993. LOL
And I am now accepted into Lowe's so already looking forward to that. And if things go well, I will be there in my new 914. . . If I ever get DAS to ship it here from Houston.
Hey Ziggie111, you listening?
05-21-2007 | 12:29 PM
#20
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From: In the pasture.
Victor, Hal.
Nice meeting you guys.
Sorry your experience was sooo bad victor. When you told me you changed instructors you didn't provide details so I was a little perplexed. I have never had any experiences like that at any driving event, DE or AX. I doubt you will ever experience anything even close to that again. Be careful, one more event and you are hooked.
Hal, didn't know it was you how start the thread when we were having dinner. Enjoyed the company.
Nice meeting you guys.
Sorry your experience was sooo bad victor. When you told me you changed instructors you didn't provide details so I was a little perplexed. I have never had any experiences like that at any driving event, DE or AX. I doubt you will ever experience anything even close to that again. Be careful, one more event and you are hooked.
Hal, didn't know it was you how start the thread when we were having dinner. Enjoyed the company.
05-21-2007 | 12:36 PM
#21
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From: NC
Please do all of us a favor and share the name of the first instructor with us. This will give him a chance to respond, or not. Perhaps he would be willing to share some of his own video so those of us who really know how to drive could comment 
I have been involved with PCA for about 7 years. The reason I am still involved has more to do with the people and less about the cars. Your first instructor is an outlier, a lump of coal amongst many diamonds.
I have been involved with PCA for about 7 years. The reason I am still involved has more to do with the people and less about the cars. Your first instructor is an outlier, a lump of coal amongst many diamonds.
05-21-2007 | 12:46 PM
#22
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From: In the pasture.
Originally Posted by RSRRacer
Perhaps he would be willing to share some of his own video so those of us who really know how to drive could comment
05-21-2007 | 02:19 PM
#25
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From: Charlotte, NC
Dang. Your start shouldn't have been that way at all. Most of us wouldn't use that kind of language nor touch your controls.
Without communicators, instructors need to yell to be heard. This is the only shred of defense I can offer concerning your 1st instructor.
Glad to hear you progressed through your weekend in spite of the bumpy start.
Without communicators, instructors need to yell to be heard. This is the only shred of defense I can offer concerning your 1st instructor.
Glad to hear you progressed through your weekend in spite of the bumpy start.
05-21-2007 | 02:26 PM
#26
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Sorry to hear you had trouble your first time out.
I have been going to DE's for 3 years now and, while I have "connected" better with some instructors than others, I have never had any that were not excellent.
You did the right thing talking to the CI for a new instructor -- did you tell hiim why you wanted to swap?? That a**hole should not be allowed to instruct anymore.
Marc
I have been going to DE's for 3 years now and, while I have "connected" better with some instructors than others, I have never had any that were not excellent.
You did the right thing talking to the CI for a new instructor -- did you tell hiim why you wanted to swap?? That a**hole should not be allowed to instruct anymore.
Marc
05-21-2007 | 02:40 PM
#27
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From: Altered States of America (B'ham)
FWIW, I often help Greenies with steering input. However, I tell the student at the beginning that I may reach over and help them to get to the line I want them on. I also communicate with the student when I am about to do it. I let them know that they are not to let go of the wheel and that they are driving the car, I'm just helping them hit their marks. I've never had a student complain about this method of teaching and in fact most have commented that it helped them quite a bit.
However, yelling at a student as your instructor did is not called for under any circumstance. I'm glad that you were able to find another. Please make sure that the club knows about your experience!
However, yelling at a student as your instructor did is not called for under any circumstance. I'm glad that you were able to find another. Please make sure that the club knows about your experience!
05-21-2007 | 02:50 PM
#28
Chainsaw
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From: Mayberry, NC
While I have intentionally kept the name of my first instructor quiet, I will submit to the requests and name his first name. It is [edit]@#%^*+, and I welcome his rebuttal on these forums.
When it was mentioned Saturday morning that I was looking for my instructor, this individual knew my instructor. His reply was “You’ll have a great time”. I had a time all right.
Not to be redundant, but to add some of the missing details, he seemed adamant about me hitting the turn-in cone, the apex cone, and tracking out. To be more specific, when I was not driving close enough to the turn-in cone or the apex cone (there was no track out cone Saturday morning) he kept insisting that I literally hit the base of the cones with my front tire. As I progressed through these 28 cones that he wanted me to “Hit”, gradually getting close and closer, when I got too close, was one of the four times he grabbed the steering wheel. “I didn’t mean getting that damn close”. Duh? What did you mean?
Getting out of the car, after my first full 20-minute session Saturday morning, I related my experience to a friend now running in the blue group. He described this instructor and said he had the same instructor his first DE session. While there were neither the obscenities nor the wheel grabbing, the friend did stop after the first session and let the chief instructor know that he would never ride with this instructor again.
@#%^*+ is welcome to defend his position. There is still more, but I’ve posted enough for now.
When it was mentioned Saturday morning that I was looking for my instructor, this individual knew my instructor. His reply was “You’ll have a great time”. I had a time all right.
Not to be redundant, but to add some of the missing details, he seemed adamant about me hitting the turn-in cone, the apex cone, and tracking out. To be more specific, when I was not driving close enough to the turn-in cone or the apex cone (there was no track out cone Saturday morning) he kept insisting that I literally hit the base of the cones with my front tire. As I progressed through these 28 cones that he wanted me to “Hit”, gradually getting close and closer, when I got too close, was one of the four times he grabbed the steering wheel. “I didn’t mean getting that damn close”. Duh? What did you mean?
Getting out of the car, after my first full 20-minute session Saturday morning, I related my experience to a friend now running in the blue group. He described this instructor and said he had the same instructor his first DE session. While there were neither the obscenities nor the wheel grabbing, the friend did stop after the first session and let the chief instructor know that he would never ride with this instructor again.
@#%^*+ is welcome to defend his position. There is still more, but I’ve posted enough for now.
Last edited by NCporsche; 05-21-2007 at 07:33 PM. Reason: Removing instructor's name
05-21-2007 | 03:15 PM
#29
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Sorry to hear about your bad instructor experience; I can't imagine treating a student that way.
You rebounded nicely; glad you stuck with it.
Maybe better to leave names off of the thread?
You rebounded nicely; glad you stuck with it.
Maybe better to leave names off of the thread?
05-21-2007 | 03:24 PM
#30
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From: Destin, Nashville, In a 458 Challenge
Grabbing the steering wheel and the comments. Definitely do not be embarrased or afraid to get someone else. The DE was for you, not the instructor's ego. Always, and I mean, always, go to CI and politely complain if you are not satisfied or comfortable with your instructor. You could not drive safely given your environment and state of mind caused.
The PCA certification I went through taught us not to grab the wheel. I think this dangerous, but I do admit I have been tempted to do it a few times just to help someone with a line who was doing reasonable well, but just slightly off repeatedly in the same location. There are much better and safer methods. If he cannot figure those out, he perhaps should not be instructing.
The PCA certification I went through taught us not to grab the wheel. I think this dangerous, but I do admit I have been tempted to do it a few times just to help someone with a line who was doing reasonable well, but just slightly off repeatedly in the same location. There are much better and safer methods. If he cannot figure those out, he perhaps should not be instructing.