NASCAR drivers are cracking HANS devices
#16
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FIA regulations for HANS in case anyone was interested.
http://www.fiainstitute.com/documents/HANS_Guide.pdf
http://www.fiainstitute.com/documents/HANS_Guide.pdf
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Originally Posted by cooleyjb
Nothing against gbaker, I pay attention to everything he says and appreciate what he brings to the table but he still does work for Issac a direct competitor of HANS.
1. Both HANS and ISAAC have to obey Sir Isaac Newton's laws. They of course do, in very different ways.
Simple college physics can demonstrate the (vast) differences in loading between a simple tethered mass (HANS).....think a bullwhip.....and a damper connected mass (ISAAC). There is a mathematical elegance in using a damper to control the motion of a fixed mass....really.
2. I don't recall anyone from H&D ever posting in this forum, even after email invitations to please do so.
3. HANS does not have any (real) direct competitors. They have seen to that via their marketing plan; that is the business (non technical) side of safety. There is something 'odd' about a single device being exclusively specified by major sanctioning bodies (the same does not appear to be the case with harnesses, seats, nets, helmets.....but it is with H&N restraints)
4. I own several H&N restraints, HANS and ISAAC included, since I have a bit of a fascination in trying them and understanding their design philosophy and limitations. I know, odd hobby.
In the end, as has often been stated, there is no perfect H&N restraint. Any design has limitations, restrictions and fundamental flaws. Such is the way of nature and design, which always favors entropy.
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The above thread is meant in no way to be an endorsement (or criticism) for any commercially available H&N restraint.
The last thing I want to do is start another "Rennlist Racing/DE forum" jihad over H&N restraints.....which then turns into an oil viscosity jihad.....which then turns into a "proper tow vehicle" jihad.
You know, the stuff that takes up lots of John D's disk space.
The last thing I want to do is start another "Rennlist Racing/DE forum" jihad over H&N restraints.....which then turns into an oil viscosity jihad.....which then turns into a "proper tow vehicle" jihad.
You know, the stuff that takes up lots of John D's disk space.
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Originally Posted by ltc
A few random comments:
1. Both HANS and ISAAC have to obey Sir Isaac Newton's laws. They of course do, in very different ways.
Simple college physics can demonstrate the (vast) differences in loading between a simple tethered mass (HANS).....think a bullwhip.....and a damper connected mass (ISAAC). There is a mathematical elegance in using a damper to control the motion of a fixed mass....really.
1. Both HANS and ISAAC have to obey Sir Isaac Newton's laws. They of course do, in very different ways.
Simple college physics can demonstrate the (vast) differences in loading between a simple tethered mass (HANS).....think a bullwhip.....and a damper connected mass (ISAAC). There is a mathematical elegance in using a damper to control the motion of a fixed mass....really.
Originally Posted by ltc
2. I don't recall anyone from H&D ever posting in this forum, even after email invitations to please do so.
Originally Posted by ltc
4. I own several H&N restraints, HANS and ISAAC included, since I have a bit of a fascination in trying them and understanding their design philosophy and limitations. I know, odd hobby.
In the end, as has often been stated, there is no perfect H&N restraint. Any design has limitations, restrictions and fundamental flaws. Such is the way of nature and design, which always favors entropy .
In the end, as has often been stated, there is no perfect H&N restraint. Any design has limitations, restrictions and fundamental flaws. Such is the way of nature and design, which always favors entropy .
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My son has run 2 kart races so far this season with his Leatt Moto GPX.
After seeing it at the track, 6 additional drivers/parents ordered the device.
There are no issues with stability and adjustment/construction is very good. It is fairly easy to see how it does control head motion. Again, not optimized for karting vs motocross, but IMHO it is FAR better than a foam collar. Yes, it looks a bit like a toilet seat, but after seeing several kart "end over end" crashes in Florida over the winter, I quickly realized a foam collar was a bit "lacking".
Unfortunately, we still travel with the foam collar in case someone at the track "didn't get the memo" regarding WKA approval. So far the driver has had zero complaints and prefers it to a foam collar.
And most importantly, the team CEO (re: wife/mother
) is happy seeing it used on track.
I have not yet placed an order for a Leatt Moto R (SFI 38.1 approved), as (unfortunately), I won't be taking the Cup car out this year; so I wouldn't be able to evaluate it.
After seeing it at the track, 6 additional drivers/parents ordered the device.
There are no issues with stability and adjustment/construction is very good. It is fairly easy to see how it does control head motion. Again, not optimized for karting vs motocross, but IMHO it is FAR better than a foam collar. Yes, it looks a bit like a toilet seat, but after seeing several kart "end over end" crashes in Florida over the winter, I quickly realized a foam collar was a bit "lacking".
Unfortunately, we still travel with the foam collar in case someone at the track "didn't get the memo" regarding WKA approval. So far the driver has had zero complaints and prefers it to a foam collar.
And most importantly, the team CEO (re: wife/mother
![bowdown](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bowdown.gif)
I have not yet placed an order for a Leatt Moto R (SFI 38.1 approved), as (unfortunately), I won't be taking the Cup car out this year; so I wouldn't be able to evaluate it.
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Off topic, but the CoT is a joke...it has taken 6 years to put it on the track.
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=3102692
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=3102692
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I have a 6 year old HAN Last weekend at LRP I compared it to a new on a friend just purchased. There have been many changes on is the base thickness and taper of the part that rises off the shoulder mount is significantly thiner.
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lets keep this in the right scale too. Note that the cracking was described as slight and surface. Not any kind of structure failure but more on the lines of sign of stress having been input and resisted. It should not be dismissed but with the cracking only showing up in devices that have been in a high G event H&D should give the user a new one and use the persons face and event story as a sales point of another driver that kept his/her head so to speak. I bet that 99.9% of the devices will never be "field tested" so this is a good bet on the makers part.
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Originally Posted by ltc
My apologies to the thread owner/starter for the
detour.
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I agree with most here that a cracked HANS means the drivers neck was saved.
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Hey Itc, you stated in your post that you try H&N restraints as a hobby. How do you do that? Do you have an impact test set-up in your basement ike the insurance car crash safety tests you see on TV? Just funnin' with you ;-)
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my point about gbaker wasn't an attempt to find someone who will step in and bash HANS/promote ISAAC but rather to find perhaps the only person posting on this forum that fully understands the loads and the affect a crack (sudden release of energy) would have on the driver.
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From the ABC article posted above: "I flipped my visor open and put my hands in my helmet to grab on, then I tucked down and got in the fetal position and planned for the worst.".
That's kind of an odd thing to do isnt' it? Wouldn't you want the visor closed during a wreck to prevent anything from getting into the helmet?
That's kind of an odd thing to do isnt' it? Wouldn't you want the visor closed during a wreck to prevent anything from getting into the helmet?
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Originally Posted by cooleyjb
Size of cracks?
![](http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/HANSDelphiPostCrash1.jpg)
![](http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/HANSDelphiPostCrash2.jpg)
How many crashes had the HANS been in previously?
Forces the drivers experienced during their crashes?
I'd presume its the Professional version and not the cheaper version.
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WOW, thanks for the shots. I didn't expect to see those ever. And for the nubmers. I thought NASCAR didn't release those stats.